Members thetrooper9 Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 Lots of jazz guys can solo on and on over the same chord progression and keep it interesting. how do they do it? if anyone here has gotten to that point how did you get there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kuroyume Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 It is both knowledge and practice as best as I can tell (not a jazz solo master by any means myself). What I have found is that while practicing it is good to improvise over everything. It may sound like guitar masturbation but there is a point to the exercise - to explore the possibilities and apply what you know. Otherwise, why do we continually request chord progressions? To apply what we know over them to see what we can do and accomplish (and improve). I'd say that the best approach is to find a teacher to guide you. It will be faster than randomly grasping yourself - unless you are really dedicated. For me, I'm in no position to have a teacher (though I did for a short stint and miss it already!) so I must randomly grasp. Nonetheless, what I learned from before and with this teacher has improved my abilities. I'll stop here and let the experts explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 Lots of jazz guys can't either. I think it's talent and technical mastery sure but more important, craft. Pacing, timing, scaling of ideas - pft, MAKING SENSE, all come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nuclear arsenal Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 lots of people can write books on blank paper. there's this spongey thing between your ears that produces ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 But ... to follow that example ... the number of great authors who just poured out a book without reading lots and lots beforehand is probably "few-if-any". Books are the result of lots of typing and tearing up and retyping. I think long solos probably are as well. You might think you're hearing lots of stuff miraculously made up on the spot, but really they are playing lots of phrases etc that they've honed many times before. They've done it lots, so they have lots to call on. The rare time when you hear a bum note: that's the time when they decided to try something totally new... (just guessing) GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nuclear arsenal Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 yeah, but everybody listens to music. you can't avoid it. it's everywhere.and yes, you have to learn to play your instrument, just like you have to learn to read and write, and that's not always easy, but once you do that, it's just a matter of creating, just like it is for a writer or a painter or any other endeavor that's more than just paint-by-numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nuclear arsenal Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 apparently there's a part of your brain, at the very front of your frontal lobes, one of the last places developed in its evolution, that is dedicated to the process of creation and adventure, and it apparently lights up when a jazz musician is deep in the zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nuclear arsenal Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 a decent solo will quote your influences and what you've learned, but a great solo does something else.or, to quote miles davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jasco Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 lots of people can write books on blank paper.there's this spongey thing between your ears that produces ideas. I'd compare improvisation more to conversation than writing. Some people can talk for a long time and still remain interesting. Some run out of ideas quickly. Some just start repeating themselves and become boring. Why? Or... Two people can tell the same joke and yet only one of them may be funny. Why? Answer those questions and you'll also have your answer for your music improvisation question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 Lots of jazz guys can solo on and on over the same chord progression and keep it interesting. how do they do it? if anyone here has gotten to that point how did you get there? Jazz contains several repetitive chord progressions, most of which are some variation of 1-6-2-5. They've learned a bunch of licks to play over them. Time consuming, but once you have learned them you can use them in your "improvising". Simple but not easy. Using the blues as an example, learn about ten 12-bar blues solos. Be able to transpose them to the most common blues keys. Now you can wank for 12 choruses and amaze people. "How does he do that?" You didn't think John Mayer was making that stuff up did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halfwhole Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 the jazz i like best has collective improvisation. people play WITH each other, it's not some guy from youtube running harmonic minor scales for 8 minutes. listen to the miles davis live recordings with the hancock/shorter/williams/carter group for some of the best examplescTfBpKzu6XA not the greatest quality, but try to hear how the drums and soloist play off each other, phrases, note density, intensity, blablablalisten to how wayne plays ideas, revisits them, develops them... my advice is to go play music with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mosiddiqi Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 my advice is to go play music with people. This excellent piece of advice will actually improve every single area of your playing. There is nothing that focuses the mind more than other people you enjoy playing with, telling you that you suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jasco Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 There is nothing that focuses the mind more than other people you enjoy playing with, telling you that you suck.:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thetrooper9 Posted August 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 I dont know too much about blues. what is a good 12 bar blues solo to learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 Blues is much better tackled on your own. Think sad, pain, anguish - you know. Play a simple blue lick on the I chord. Then you move it up to the IV chord. Then if you don't know any turns just move up to the V chord with the same lick. Back to one again. Avoid the major third of the chord you're on for now. Repeat as you feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 I dont know too much about blues. what is a good 12 bar blues solo to learn? Here's BB King tabs: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/bb_king_tabs.htm Some other blues artists* of note you can gets tabs for free at the same place... Johnny WinterBuddy GuyAlbert KingSRVJoe Bonamassa Learn a few solos and then see if you can make up your own by changing the ones you know up. Memorize the solos you learn and transpose them to a few different keys. *I assume you do not mean jazz blues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Burninator Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 I dont know too much about blues. what is a good 12 bar blues solo to learn? I really like "I can't play the blues" by Ron Thal cool solos [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted August 23, 2009 Members Share Posted August 23, 2009 That's some weird blues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdev_03 Posted August 24, 2009 Members Share Posted August 24, 2009 I play saxophone too, and I find when I'm soloing I kind of lose myself. I practice the progressions and make up a bunch of licks beforehand, and know the scales really well, but once I'm on stage I just kind of forget it all, and play whatever I think will work. A lot of the time I can just go on forever. I once played with this really amazing bassist who was 20 years older than me, and when he solo'd, you could see him and sometimes even hear him humming what he was going to play next to himself. It was pretty amazing seeing someone with no barrier between their mind and their instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted August 24, 2009 Members Share Posted August 24, 2009 That's some weird blues. I think burninator's sig pretty much said it all, about this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted August 24, 2009 Members Share Posted August 24, 2009 I once played with this really amazing bassist who was 20 years older than me, and when he solo'd, you could see him and sometimes even hear him humming what he was going to play next to himself. It was pretty amazing seeing someone with no barrier between their mind and their instrument. One of my long-term goals is to improvise like this bassist you describe - hear something in my head, play it immediately. This is why, in my own practice, I place so much emphasis on ear training, making up lines in my head, then playing them on the instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Burninator Posted August 24, 2009 Members Share Posted August 24, 2009 I think burninator's sig pretty much said it all, about this one...Emmm... He asked for a 12-bar-blues solo, the solo itself isn't bluesy,but it is played on a 12-bar-blues progression. On the other hand my hearingpretty much sucks so those of you with good hearing are more than welcometo correct me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Watson Posted August 25, 2009 Members Share Posted August 25, 2009 Blues is much meliorate tackled on your own. Think sad, pain, anguish - you know. Play a simple chromatic lick on the I chord. Then you advise it up to the IV chord. Then if you don't undergo any turns just advise up to the V chord with the same lick. Back to one again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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