Keeping time without any pulse

[Tommy Gun]

I started recording a cover song over a backing track a few nights ago. The intro was a 30 second piece with only guitar before the instruments kick in. I can play it easily along with a metronome, but when trying to record over the backing track without a click I NEVER manage to be in time by the time the other instruments come in. How do you get better at this?

The thing is, every single time I pick up my guitar I use a metronome so I would have thought that I would be better at something like this.

[jeremy_green]

Most (practically all) recordings are done to a click track.

You likely won't be in time after 30 seconds with no ref point.... unless you are Steve Gadd

Keep practicing ... but Add a click

[gennation]

Sounds like you're not ready to not have the metronome. Playing to a metronome or click track for a long time will make you feel it right.

 

Take the particular piece you're playing, play it a for a couple of weeks to the click track, maybe longer. What happens it you start hear the time and not just the music. And your body will start reacting to where your mind, body, hands, etc...will keep the time in check. It's similar to when you've listened to an album over an over and when one song ends, you HEAR the next song starting before it starts. That's repetition, that's being in sync with whats around you.

 

The cool think is, if you take a year and ALWAYS play to a click when playing or recording alone you will do wonders for your timing for the rest of your life. Once it clicks (no pun intended) it may never leave you.

 

I played in a live rock group for 2 years that played everything to a click (midi, light show, midi bass, horns, etc...) 5-7 nights a week. That two years changed my perception of time during performance. And even 25 some years later it's still there. Although, in 2005 I did play everything to a metronome as I was learning a number of new techniques, working on accuracy, and learn a number of new styles I had to keep up with...but I dedicated a whole year to ALWAYS having that click on.

 

Take the time and be a disciple of the metronome, it will be one of the best things for you as an all around player. I've been playing 35 years now and still school myself on the basics frequently. I always tell myself, "you can build as high as you want above the foundation you've laid, but you got to keep that foundation solid and firm." Revisiting the basics as a seasoned player helps every thing about your playing improve.

[ozzeh]

My timing sucks too, probably the one thing I need to start concentrating on improving as I never use a metronome, nor ever have. I just tap my foot:facepalm:

[jamesp]

(snip) The thing is, every single time I pick up my guitar I use a metronome so I would have thought that I would be better at something like this.

 

 

I'd bet that you are better at it. There's just always room for improvement.

[JonR]

I started recording a cover song over a backing track a few nights ago. The intro was a 30 second piece with only guitar before the instruments kick in. I can play it easily along with a metronome, but when trying to record over the backing track without a click I NEVER manage to be in time by the time the other instruments come in. How do you get better at this? The thing is, every single time I pick up my guitar I use a metronome so I would have thought that I would be better at something like this.

I doubt ANYBODY could do that without a click track. 30 seconds is a hell of a long time to hold a beat in your head.

Even if some pros could do it, why make it hard on yourself? Use a click track (then edit it out of the end result).

In any live situation, if not using a click track, the band would follow the guitarist. (And in some bands the drummer might give the guitarist a guide with a discreet pulse on the hi-hat.)

There's really never any need to be able to hold an exact pulse in your head that long.

 

Of course, you can always improve your time! Try using the metronome set at half-speed, so you have to do a lot more work. Eg to 60 bpm if you're playing at 120. The classic technique is to feel it as beats 2 and 4; that forces you to get beats 1 and 3 right.

[girevik]

Victor Wooten teaches ways to use a metronome, with the ultimate goal of weaning oneself off the metronome so that good time comes from within:

If you've never heard of him before, you'll learn quickly that this guy has unreal time and groove.

[windmill]

That is so good that it is almost unbelievable

[JonR]

If you've never heard of him before, you'll learn quickly that this guy has unreal time and groove.

Excellent demo of the principle I was talking about. (Don't you get a nice warm feeling when a genius agrees with you? Of course I just got it from guys like him in the first place.)

The second half of the demo is definitely for the super-confident. You may need to spend months (years even) working on the exercises in the first part.

[1001gear]

It should be pointed out that VW can actually play music with his axe. This by way of he can stream those notes articulately, dynamically, and for purposes of this discussion, evenly. No amount of clock will help align shoddy (not perfect in this case) facility.

[JonR]

It should be pointed out that VW can actually play music with his axe. This by way of he can stream those notes articulately, dynamically, and for purposes of this discussion, evenly. No amount of clock will help align shoddy (not perfect in this case) facility.

Right. Worth remembering three elements of musical skill:

 

1. getting the right notes

2. getting them in correct time

3. being in control of articulation (dynamics, tone, etc)

 

The metronome is about the 2nd, of course, but it's not enough. Jazz musicians tend to say #2 is more important than #1, but maybe #3 is more important than either?

[1001gear]

Right. Worth remembering three elements of musical skill: 1. getting the right notes 2. getting them in correct time 3. being in control of articulation (dynamics, tone, etc) The metronome is about the 2nd, of course, but it's not enough. Jazz musicians tend to say #2 is more important than #1, but maybe #3 is more important than either?

 

 

Yes. Forgot tone but yes. And to fire all these elements off in musical fashion requires a fair amount of prep at the microscopic level. Placing the pick before picking the note, fretting one nano hair before picking; all the motor skills in between - the notes play themselves. Getting to and from them is where rhythm and timing are.