The Slow Technique and the Fast Technique

[gennation]

I know I've harp'ed on this a few times here about how players need to notice the difference in how they play when they are playing slow lines to how they play when they just 'let go'. Then they should notice HOW they are playing fast and practice THAT technique slow...to get it more under control and faster. And I've always "harp'ed" based on a ton of experience with it myself and with helping students develop their slow and fast touch on the guitar.

 

The vid below of Vernon Reid is a great example of a great player who has two extreme slow and fast techniques. You can tell he's worked on each individually to the point where he changes it on the fly so effortlessly...that is another goal to work on.

 

Once you notice it, go out and watch your favorite guitarist play and notice the difference in their technique yourself. YOUR fast technique will more than likely be different than a lot of players, and that's just fine in the end because you'll be able to play at those speeds with YOUR OWN fast technique.

 

There's obvious spots in the vid that display these techniques but here are a couple dead on markers to spot the difference.

 

1:09, watch his right hand as he picks during the bends, then notice how he changes on the fly to his fast technique for the tremolo picking.

 

2:08, watch here again how he plays his even and slower lines with his slow technique and at 2:24 he flips it on the fly to his fast technique.

 

Folks, all you got to do is pay attention and you can get over your limitations. Pay attention to your fast technique, and work that technique slow to get up to speed, gain more control, and beyond!

 

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You know what...watch the drummer too, she definitely has a slow and fast technique too. The idea is not instrument specific. Go out and watch pianist, sax players, etc...and notice it.

[gtrwiz]

you chose and awful example of someone playing fast and accurate.

[gennation]

 

you chose and awful example of someone playing fast and accurate.

 

 

Hmmm.

[gtrwiz]

here's a better one showing two different techniques:

 

[video=youtube;OiLXn1oO-jE]

[Virgman]

Interesting and something I never considered.

[gennation]

This video is another good example, especially where the basic "three notes to a string" linear patterns are concerned...which is where the sarod technique has its strength. But that's not the point...

 

The point is, so many of the great players have at least two "everyday" picking techniques. Yes there a many more techniques involved but I'm talking about the two simple "play it slow, now play it fast" techniques.

 

The ad-age says, "to play fast you need to practice it slow and build the speed" but the ad-age doesn't give you the full picture. Yes, the ad-age is definitely true...only if you practice your fast technique slow. Yes, you can practice your slow technique and make it faster for sure, but (and I've heard this 100's of times from students) you can practice a fast phrase all day at home forcing it with your slow technique...but the moment you have to play that phrase on stage that night...your fast technique will take over for you and it won't be any better than it was the night before using your fast technique...why?>>> because you blew off your fast technique forcing your slow technique on the phrase. And when you HAVE TO play it fast (like on stage or jamming with a band) you fast technique is YOUR comfort zone for playing ANYTHING fast.

 

Also think of it this way...using your slow technique...you'll hit a point/speed where you'll think you're stuck, but using your fast technique you'll still hit a point...but it will be faster than where your slow technique limited you.

 

There are SO MANY examples of this, and yes there are some guys who are super faster using their slow technique...but...THAT's their fast technique and they built it from square one, right where IT was going to be when they play fast. But there are tons of great players who have two very obvious technique between their slow and fast playing...you probably do too...so notice and work it slow EXACTLY how you are going to play it fast.

 

The two video's posted show this as being very obvious...feel free to post some more. Also feel free to post the opposite, like Mclaughlin, Di Meola, etc...who never change their technique.

 

 

 

[gtrwiz]

I get what you're saying, and I agree. I just think Vernon is pretty sloppy when he plays fast so it might not be the best example.

 

That and I'm used to the way you post at GJ so I was a bit hard on you. I forget that there are times you actually try to be helpful.

[brwnhornet59]

Interesting topic. These are basics we all need to get down at one point or another in our development. Awareness of a problem is more than half the battle to correcting it.

 

As for sloppy playing, Pebber Brown is not exactly a great example of clean technique when playing fast either.

[1001gear]

I think chops should be a logistics thing. One thing to the next at the prescribed time and destination.

 

Slow:

Learn the route, ins and outs, bla bla...

 

Fast:

Do it faster.

 

With guitar there's a fat mid zone where everything should be equally comfortable. Fast or slow, the motions happen at will.

 

As you exceed this zone, quantum effects start to happen so many players develop cocessions - hmm Or concessions to the difficulties. Sloppiness is one extreme, Buckethead would suffice as the other.

 

As you drop below this zone you lose the ability to stay on it. so you develop extraneous motions and mental activity to keep it steady.

 

When it's showtime, it's all on whatever homework you did.

[JonR]

There's an old saying that Hal Galper quotes, to the effect of "to play faster, count slower".

Eg, if you're playing at 240 bpm, don't feel the quarter notes, feel the half notes - which are at a much more comfortable 120. The idea is that it's easier to play 16ths at 120 than it is to play 8ths at 240. The note rate is exactly the same of course - but you will sound (and feel) more relaxed - you fingers are moving at the same speed, but your thinking is less rushed.

He demonstrates the principle with a student here:

 

(He calls it "minimising emotion", but mainly it's about halving the count. From around 3:00 if you don't want to watch the whole thing.)

[gennation]

I get what you're saying, and I agree. I just think Vernon is pretty sloppy when he plays fast so it might not be the best example. That and I'm used to the way you post at GJ so I was a bit hard on you. I forget that there are times you actually try to be helpful.

 

I think the difference in those two vids is Vernon doesn't hit as many clunker notes. It's like a precise stream/extention of consciousnesses as opposed to memorized scales and licks.

 

It's all good from my side, I just thought you were letting butthurt, from a different forum, show.

[gennation]

 

There's an old saying that Hal Galper quotes, to the effect of "to play faster, count slower". Eg, if you're playing at 240 bpm, don't feel the quarter notes, feel the half notes - which are at a much more comfortable 120. The idea is that it's easier to play 16ths at 120 than it is to play 8ths at 240. The note rate is exactly the same of course - but you will sound (and feel) more relaxed - you fingers are moving at the same speed, but your thinking is less rushed. He demonstrates the principle with a student here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJRjEpjd9S4&feature=relmfu (He calls it "minimising emotion", but mainly it's about halving the count. From around 3:00 if you don't want to watch the whole thing.)

 

 

I find the opposite when transcibing/reading music. As in, I'll chart something out as a slow pace in 16th notes but after a bit into the process it looks like overkill so I double the tempo and write it as 8th notes. In the end it seems to make more sense to the people who play my charts too.

 

But mentally a chart full of 16th notes, for me anyways, is let sightreading friendly than a chart full of 8th notes, regardless of the tempo. Strange, but I have felt that way at times. Maybe it's because it looks neater or something.

[JonR]

 

I find the opposite when transcibing/reading music. As in, I'll chart something out as a slow pace in 16th notes but after a bit into the process it looks like overkill so I double the tempo and write it as 8th notes. In the end it seems to make more sense to the people who play my charts too. But mentally a chart full of 16th notes, for me anyways, is let sightreading friendly than a chart full of 8th notes, regardless of the tempo. Strange, but I have felt that way at times. Maybe it's because it looks neater or something.

Well, notation is different. When Galper talks about feeling the music in half-time he doesn't mean rewriting it (except in that demo on the board). 4/4 is still 4/4. He just means feeling 1 and 3 instead of 1-2-3-4. (IOW, it doesn't become "1---2").

 

There is some flexibility in something like samba, where it might be written as 4/4, 2/2, or 2/4, because of the sense of two overlaid metres, one at half tempo. Reggae does something similar, and so does a lot of rock. (I often have trouble deciding how to notate rock metres: the count is normally "1-2-3-4", but with some songs, it can be equally easy to feel it fast or slow.)

Jazz is often indicated "in 2", of course, but it would still be 4/4, just with the emphasis (in the bass) on 1 and 3. It wouldn't need to be written as 2/2, still less as 2/4.

[gtrwiz]

 

I think the difference in those two vids is Vernon doesn't hit as many clunker notes. It's like a precise stream/extention of consciousnesses as opposed to memorized scales and licks. It's all good from my side, I just thought you were letting butthurt, from a different forum, show.

 

 

one mans precise stream/extention of consciousnesses, is another mans garbled nonsense.

 

No butthurt, just forgot about your split personality.

[gennation]

 

one mans precise stream/extention of consciousnesses, is another mans garbled nonsense. No butthurt, just forgot about your split personality.

 

 

Haha, nice.

 

He hits some seriously clunker notes in that demonstration. Watch it again.

[jeremy_green]

Vernon is Vernon - even the guys who play with him say that. Either you like what Vernon does or you really don't.

None of that means Mike's example is bad, in fact if you disregard the notes he is playing you can clearly SEE what Mike is describing. Vernon's 2 techniques are VERY markedly different physically.

 

It's an interesting concept... one I haven't thought much about... Cool.

[girevik]

I use the Pebber Brown style ("sarod picking") when I play with a pick. I find it works well for all kinds of alternate picking, not just 3-note/string runs, which I rarely do these days. I regularly practice my tremelo picking (just 16th note strokes per beat) with a metronome. I have not yet noticed a need to switch to a different picking style as the metronome goes up.

 

Perhaps with other picking styles it is indeed necessary. But as noted by gennation, some players like John McLaughlin appear to use exactly the same picking technique whether playing at a slow, fast, or somewhere in-between speed.

[1001gear]

One thing about Pebber Brown's oblique picking; the up and down strokes sound different.

[girevik]

 

One thing about Pebber Brown's oblique picking; the up and down strokes sound different.

 

 

Maybe just in that video.

[1001gear]

Yup. I now make a point of flat (square on the string) picking. All by way of developing a consistent attack. I'm not that quick anyway and it keeps me at a pace where I should be for now lol.

[girevik]

I believe Pebber was inspired by guys like this one in the process of developing sarod picking - at 4:25 into the video is a sick display of alternate picking - notice his forearm does not move and his wrist barely moves as it is when he's soloing on just the melody strings (and avoiding the sympathetic strings) and he only seems to move that forearm more dramatically when he's strumming the sympathetic strings towards the end of that solo:

 

[video=youtube;DsGD3l0F7ho]

[brwnhornet59]

I incorporated what you call sarod picking into my playing in the early 80's. There are many styles of picking considered to be hybrid in guitar playing, this is one of them. These came along way before me you or Pebber came onto the scene. It is nice to see players become hip to these techniques. Study the masters you will find all you need to know.

 

BTW, I love raga. This is one of my favorite incarnations of East meets West.

 

 

[video=youtube;X0nh1hvGao4]

[girevik]

 

I incorporated what you call sarod picking into my playing in the early 80's. There are many styles of picking considered to be hybrid in guitar playing, this is one of them. These came along way before me you or Pebber came onto the scene.

 

 

Pebber specifically mentioned John McLaughlin as one of the guys whose picking technique he studied extensively. Great choice of video!

 

I have McLaughlin's "This Is How I Do It" instructional DVD set. Its chock full of great stuff. However, his picking technique isn't something he talks about - he basically just says "practice these exercises to achieve fluency" - you could do the exercises with the Morse/Benson picking style or whatever you want, from his perspective. What people call "picking from the wrist" like how McLaughlin picks was not intuitive to me. What was more intuitive was simply picking with the flat face of the pick up and down the string and locking up the wrist for tremolo picking.

 

For anyone who cares to see, these are the Pebber videos that explain Pebber's technique. I like my tremolo picking after I adopted this approach - I can do it for quite a while now without my forearm getting sore quickly from my previous locked-wrist, move from the elbow tremolo picking approach:

 

The angle of the pick and the thumb movement:

[video=youtube;LcNhPxsxNNY]

 

These two videos explain the forearm motion - the spoon in the cup thing worked for me:

 

Fast forward to 3:25 if you want - he does talk a lot (sorry, Pebber!):

[video=youtube;WqZB033dHjo]

 

[video=youtube;FiWKvSsKVw0]

 

If you are concerned about differences in tone downpicking vs. up-picking using this technique, just practice alternate picking with accents on down-picks, then accents on up-picks. And also try incorporating rest strokes. It took me at least a month to get used to this style of circular picking.

[mosiddiqi]

I think I've mentioned here before, but working on Sarod picking from the Pebber vid's that Girevik posted had a MAJOR impact on my picking. My previously "locked" wrist unlocked like magic.

[brwnhornet59]

Make a study of Di Meola or Coryell's right hand technique. Also Bereli Lagrene or Andreas Oberg. Much of the technique you are searching for will come from these guys.

 

BTW, I just bought a 5 pack cd set through Amazon, that had Shakti's first 3 albums as well as two of John's later work, for $15. Those Shakti cd's are worth their weight in platinum.