transcribing a song by ear with no bass

[possopo]

hi everyone,

I'm currently putting a lot of effort in transcribing songs by ear.

it's sometimes easy, sometimes a bit harder if not totally impossible when I can't hear the bass (or if the bass is not the root of the chord). I always rely on this bass note and I'd like to find another way to transcribe.

 

are there any tips to find chords by ear only when the bass is misleading (not the root note) or when there is no bass at all ?

 

thanks everyone for your help:)

[JonR]

Even when the bass is the root note, you still need to be able to recognise different chord types (maj, min, dom7, dim, etc), so that knowledge should help. A particular type of chord should retain most of that character, even when the bass is not the root. It will just sound a little more "restless", or unstable. Eg a 1st inversion major triad still sounds lke a major triad; just not as "settled".

 

You should get used to the sounds of certain common inversions: 1st inversion (3rd of chord in bass), 2nd inversion (5th in bass) - these have distinctive sounds. So - assuming you can identify the bass note - you have at least a couple of other choices if you can tell it's not the root.

 

Other possibilities:

 

2nd in bass = "9sus4" sound. Eg "F/G" sounds like G9sus4.

4th in bass = "maj9" sound. Eg, "G/C" sounds like Cmaj9

6th in bass = "min7" sound. Eg. "C/A" is Am7 (not only sounds like it!)

7th in bass: this is a "3rd inversion", and there are different kinds you need to recognise: dom7 (eg G7/F); min7 (eg Am7/G, very like C/G); maj7 (eg C/B, very dissonant sound, quite rare).

 

In addition, most of these non-root chord types are only heard briefly, commonly as a result of scale-wise bass lines. Eg, the very common D/F# is usually heard between G and Em (or vice versa), so should be easily recognised - although a common alternative would be Bm/F#; they sound very similar, and are often interchangeable, so it may not matter too much if you mistake one for the other; just be aware of possibility.

 

As with all chord identification, personal experiment is very useful. Play these chord types yourself (with various different roots) and hear what they sound like.

 

If there is no bass instrument, similar considerations apply. Any chord instrument is still playing chords! Ie, for a solo guitar, chords will still have a bass note, it just might not be as clearly audible as on a separate bass. Then you have to rely more on your knowledge of chord quality. If you're not sure what - say - a maj7 chord sounds like, or a m7, then you need to do some exercises with chord types (again, just playing various ones over to yourself should get you familiar enough with their character).

 

What I tend to do in those situations (where I can't be sure of chord type) is listen for individual notes in the chords. Usually, with any one chord, you can pick out a couple of notes, which - together with the key context - should be enough to narrow it down to 2 or 3 possibilities.

You should also be able to hear when a chromatic chord occurs (one outside the key), because it should stick out. That will alert you to the likelihood that it contains at least one note outside the key.

The more songs you transcribe, the more you will get to recognise the common kinds of changes. But it does take experience - and, while learning, a lot of cheating! I still often look songs up in published books when I can, if I'm not sure of what I'm hearing. I don't trust them totally, but they often give me a good answer (of course I check back with the recording to confirm by ear). And then I'm better equipped next time, because that's one more sound in my "library".

[Pitar]

Been x-scribing by ear since day-1. Now I can hear something while away from home and play it after a couple minutes. But, that's how I learned to play guitar. Sitting next to the turntable I'd pick the needle up, put it where I wanted it, listen, poke around the fretboard for the notes and repeat the process until I had the song. Everyone I knew in those days followed the same method. There were no fake music books available, no tab and no one to show you anything. Now I x-scribe music written for other instruments. Development of the ear is probably more important than actually learning an instrument.

[jonfinn]

One thing that might help too. If there's no bass player, try to hear the highest note in the chord. Once you get that, you can make educated guesses to what the chord COULD be. You'll know when you hit it right.

[Lee Knight]

I think a big part of it is learning the sounds of all the diatonic chord series. Just absorb what a vi sound like. The ii, and the V. All of it, inside and out. I ii iii IV... on up. Those are like landmarks. And if you trying to identify a chord other than the trad diatonic chord, knowing that trad chord can get you in the neighborhood. A bVII is easy cause we know what a I sounds like. Same concept...

[stomias]

This ^^^^^^^^^^

[mosiddiqi]

Excellent advice from all as usual ..I'll add that it's good practice to visualise the sound of different chord types in your head..."hear" a Major, minor or Dominant chord. Away from the guitar, think of, say, DMaj7...really think about it..what it sounds like. Hold that thought and then try it on your guitar..see how close you are.

[stomias]

Yes Mos. The brain....the most underutilized part of most guitarists............

[possopo]

jonfinn wrote :

One thing that might help too. If there's no bass player, try to hear the highest note in the chord. Once you get that, you can make educated guesses to what the chord COULD be. You'll know when you hit it right.

I'm doing that sometimes but quite often, it's even more misleading than trying to hear the bass note (because of chord inversions and such things) and to be honest, I think it's like cheating
when I hear an open chord on a guitar, it's usually not too hard to get what chord it is. "oh, this F# on the higher E string, of course the guy is playing a D !" and this sorts of things.
I think what I'd really be able to do is hear the texture of the chord, hear when it's a major or a minor (and then add the 7th).

Lee Knight wrote :

I think a big part of it is learning the sounds of all the diatonic chord series. Just absorb what a vi sound like. The ii, and the V. All of it, inside and out.

got it ! I'm already trying to do that but I'm at stage one so I'm working on I-IV-V (either major or minor scale).
but why start with vi and ii ?

mosidiqqi wrote :

"hear" a Major, minor or Dominant chord.

it's probably my final goal but it is really difficult. at first, I was even thinking I had a problem because I always mistake major chords and minor chords. stupid things like : oh the sequence is descending, hmm, it must be minor because it's sad to go low.
and I tried with several people (not musicians), they all have the same problem.
if I play a major chords really slow, they think it's minor. if I play a minor chord quite hard (and it's even better if I smile when I'm doing it), they think it's major...
they're basically mislead by the same tricks as I am:)

to be honest, dom7th may be easier to hear (probably because I can hear the additional note, a note that is less obvious than root/third/fifth, it really stands out).


JonR wrote :

The more songs you transcribe, the more you will get to recognise the common kinds of changes. But it does take experience - and, while learning, a lot of cheating! I still often look songs up in published books when I can, if I'm not sure of what I'm hearing.

yes, after many hours of transcribing, I can now transcribe very obvious blues songs in a minute (I IV V you know) and basic pop/rock songs in just a little bit more time. but I'm really not satisfied because since all these songs rely pretty much on the same chord sequences, I fell like I'm transcribing the same song over and over again.

and when something changes, I'm lost. especially when a chord is not in the key. it's like I can't hear it's not in the key (probably because it's still a common trick already heard in so many songs so it still sounds natural to me)... and then I feel I'm still at level one of hearing...

[halfwhole]

 

I think what I'd really be able to do is hear the texture of the chord, hear when it's a major or a minor (and then add the 7th).

 

got a smartphone?

 

get one of the many free eartraining apps and work on the sounds away from the instrument while you're waiting for the bus or whatever.

 

if you just do maj/min/dim/aug chords for 20 minutes a day you should be good to go in 2-3 weeks tops.

[JonR]

yes, after many hours of transcribing, I can now transcribe very obvious blues songs in a minute (I IV V you know) and basic pop/rock songs in just a little bit more time. but I'm really not satisfied because since all these songs rely pretty much on the same chord sequences, I fell like I'm transcribing the same song over and over again. and when something changes, I'm lost. especially when a chord is not in the key. it's like I can't hear it's not in the key (probably because it's still a common trick already heard in so many songs so it still sounds natural to me)... and then I feel I'm still at level one of hearing...

But that's another good sign: you're aware of such differences (and common sounds) even if you can't identify them yet.

If it's a "common trick" (a chromatic chord frequently used), then it's likely to be something like a bVII (a conventional sound in rock music), or some other borrowing from the parallel minor, like bIII, bVI or minor IV.

IOW, it will sound "out" (not in key) but "right" (familiar and good) at the same time.

Other common chromatic chords (in certain kinds of music) are secondary dominants, esp V/V. Eg, a D or D7 chord used in key of C to go to the G. This is very common in country music, as well as jazz (rarer in rock.)

 

Other chromatic chords may be a lot more surprising. IOW, the more odd something sounds, the more you can suspect it's none of the above! Which helps narrow the choices down...

[Lee Knight]

got it ! I'm already trying to do that but I'm at stage one so I'm working on I-IV-V (either major or minor scale). but why start with vi and ii ?

Sorry, I didn't mean you start with vi and ii, I was really speaking arbitrarily. Learn them all! It is the key to everything. Really. So, just getting used to what each of the ii iii IV V etc... sound's like against the I is the whole deal. Going anywhere before that is almost counter productive. It is a HUGE help for everything musical to know what they all sound like. Then anything non-diatonic is just a matter of figuring out what cracks a chords falls into or how it has changed a diatonic chord into some altered form.

But you gotta get those basics under your belt. Just play with them endlessly.

[possopo]

thank you all for the great pieces of advice !

I just found another way to transcribe a song which is even better than the bass. that is using major and minor triads on the upper strings of the guitar. instead of having just one note to find a chord, I'm now having the three basic notes of a chord. and it works so easy !

 

I have another question, but I think I'll strat a new thread for it:)