Sort of OT: Reason opened my eyes.

[Awake77]

Yeah the lack of MIDI-out just sucks. And ReWire in SONAR seems to be like throwing chains and an anchor over my DAW:)

[Sinner6]

Am I the only one annoyed by the fake "plugs and cables"? It seems to be clinging to the conceptual boundries of hardware. Though I suppose this is what makes it such a great instructional tool. Not that it's not incredibly powerful.

[malfunkt]

I think people take things TOO seriously.

In my eyes, Reason isn't for serious musicians or producers - you know the types that have to have a real modular analog synth, a rack of the most expensive effects, the most expensive VAs out there, etc...

Let's face it, not all of us are going to have jobs in the music industry, or be able to afford the money (or time) for all that gear.

We want to express ourselves and have fun...

voila Reason.

It covers a lot of bases. You aren't limited to any type of music...

I'm easily pleased, so anything with a Piano and a sequencer I'll be happy.

Of course I can have some strings and analogesque pads so that's a plus.

I've been through the journey... bought lots of hardware, and I'm down to a MacBookPro, Reason, Metasynth, an MKS-70 and a Z1. I'll be using Reason for almost everything as I can't be bothered to hook anything up (only virtually!).

Reason has been very expressive in my experience. My favorite software for what it stands for and its simple approach. I'm sure other software embodies a similar flair, but I haven't tried them.

I can't wait to plug in the Universal Binaries version and start using it with Metasynth.... there are so many possibilities with these two pieces of kit its overwhelming.

[CardioGram]

hmm i'm not even a big reason-fan, but i think it would have a place even for 'pros'...

taken for what it is, it's a truly unique self-contained modular system with a unique interface, even the 'pros' should appreciate its special attributes.

[tucktronix]

Originally posted by malfunkt I think people take things TOO seriously. In my eyes, Reason isn't for serious musicians or producers - you know the types that have to have a real modular analog synth, a rack of the most expensive effects, the most expensive VAs out there, etc... Let's face it, not all of us are going to have jobs in the music industry, or be able to afford the money (or time) for all that gear. We want to express ourselves and have fun... voila Reason. It covers a lot of bases. You aren't limited to any type of music... I'm easily pleased, so anything with a Piano and a sequencer I'll be happy. Of course I can have some strings and analogesque pads so that's a plus. I've been through the journey... bought lots of hardware, and I'm down to a MacBookPro, Reason, Metasynth, an MKS-70 and a Z1. I'll be using Reason for almost everything as I can't be bothered to hook anything up (only virtually!). Reason has been very expressive in my experience. My favorite software for what it stands for and its simple approach. I'm sure other software embodies a similar flair, but I haven't tried them. I can't wait to plug in the Universal Binaries version and start using it with Metasynth.... there are so many possibilities with these two pieces of kit its overwhelming.

+1

That's why I have a HD recorder to layer sounds from my hardware synths. Soundwise, Reason has it's plusses and minuses. The EX7 and MicroKorg usually covers those minuses pretty well. Works well for me.

[GigMan]

Originally posted by tucktronix +1 That's why I have a HD recorder to layer sounds from my hardware synths. Soundwise, Reason has it's plusses and minuses. The EX7 and MicroKorg usually covers those minuses pretty well. Works well for me.

Ok, I'll admit it, I don't use Reason, never seen Reason, am completely "Reason-illiterate"

...so educate me: is Reason a sequencer? sampler? softsynth? all of the above?

[CardioGram]

Originally posted by GigMan Ok, I'll admit it, I don't use Reason, never seen Reason, am completely "Reason-illiterate" ...so educate me: is Reason a sequencer? sampler? softsynth? all of the above?

"all of the above".

check out

http://www.propellerheads.se/

click: Reason
click: What is Reason.

[Awake77]

I've been through the journey... bought lots of hardware, and I'm down to a MacBookPro, Reason, Metasynth, an MKS-70 and a Z1. I'll be using Reason for almost everything as I can't be bothered to hook anything up (only virtually!).

I love Reason, but I have to admit it was more than worth the $155 in cables to hook all my synths up to my PC.

[silver_shake]

reason sounds horrible, they employ some kind of real time compression which makes it sound pretty compressed and bad.

even with fancy cabling, and by passing the mixer using rewire,,,,,,,,,,the problem is still there.


i can point u guys to test done with dynamics, aliasing with reason compared to other sofware apps.......


but for ease of use, ya it can' be beaten.

[Cruel_Hoax]

Originally posted by silver_shake i can point u guys to test done with dynamics, aliasing with reason compared to other sofware apps.......

 

Would you, please?

 

-Hoax

[orangefunk]

Originally posted by silver_shake reason sounds horrible, they employ some kind of real time compression which makes it sound pretty compressed and bad. even with fancy cabling, and by passing the mixer using rewire,,,,,,,,,,the problem is still there. i can point u guys to test done with dynamics, aliasing with reason compared to other sofware apps....... but for ease of use, ya it can' be beaten.

 

 

I thought this was an old complaint from V2.0?

 

Can't say I've found the software that bad in terms of audio quality personally... not sure why they would use real time compression, when that would take CPU cycles..

[Khazul]

This issue of Reason audio quality seems to keep coming and going on a near annual basis.

People have done tests in the past to check reaon's impact upon playing samples - the only 'issue' found was with default gain structure, a level drop of about 3dB.

I have to be honest though and subjectively I have often wondered if some part of reason suffer from a slow attack - NN-XT for example seems to rob *some* drum samples of 'punch' - rex loop in particular seem to suffer from this (but thats a known and commonly use artifact of Recyle/Rex parameters).

When I have bothered to look into this at wave form level, I cant see any obvious reason for it, so I just wonder if I'm imagining it.

[robtronik]

Originally posted by silver_shake reason sounds horrible, they employ some kind of real time compression which makes it sound pretty compressed and bad. even with fancy cabling, and by passing the mixer using rewire,,,,,,,,,,the problem is still there. i can point u guys to test done with dynamics, aliasing with reason compared to other sofware apps....... but for ease of use, ya it can' be beaten.

 

 

there is no real time compression done in reason as a default for output.

 

thanks,

 

Rob.

[silver_shake]

Originally posted by robtronik there is no real time compression done in reason as a default for output. thanks, Rob.

 

 

 

Ok, maybe, maybe not. I dont know the props programming. I know there is alot of people on this forum that work for propellerheads, so i'm not gonna get into a long argument about this.

 

But for any of you guys who have Reason 3, try this simple test, make a song in reason, export it to wave (add as many effects in mixdown as u want)

 

Tranfer that midi file of your song into another sequencer like cubase, logic, pro tools, and record similar patches of you arrangment thru a hardware rompler, triton, motif, roland 5080, or anything decent, (a Micro Korg will do) (If u dont' have a hardware rompler try another software rompler like sampletank, hypersonic, etc, whatever.

 

and mix it down, (and don't even use ANY effects when mixing this (because 3rd party effects can be a lot highter quality than those in Reason)

 

level match the files, and now compare the depth, transients response, stereo image, and overall openess of the two files, and u can decide for yourself. U will be SUPRISED! It won't even be close!!!!

 

Reason on it's own sounds ok, but as soon as you A/B it to something else, then u realize where it falls short. But for ease of putting together creative work, thats where i think it really shines.

Infact, i often quickly compose in Reason, BUT then i transfer that midi file to my sequencer and record either thru sample tank or my micro korg, because it sounds better that way.

 

Let your ears decide for youself, put PLZ have a reference to somethign when u are comparing!!!! This is the most important thing IMO.

.

[silver_shake]

Originally posted by Cruel Hoax Would you, please? -Hoax

 

 

No prob here are the links:

 

http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/aliasing/

 

 

 

http://www.simonv.com/tutorials/quality.php

 

There, are just aliasing test, nothing too important, imo.

 

 

I'm looking for the dynamics/compression test, and ill post that up as soon as i can find the link.

 

But seriously, if reason sounds good to you, then don't believe what the math says, the only thing that matters is what your ears say.

[Khazul]

Originally posted by silver_shake I know there is alot of people on this forum that work for propellerheads, so i'm not gonna get into a long argument about this.

I doubt it - if there was then they may notice that there are alot of semi-ex-users - ie people who moved on for whatever reasons, sound, integrated workflow (ie with DAW+hardware synths etc), and they might even wonder about those reasons for moving on.

Nope - they seem quite content with nothing better than lip service to other applications via rewire, and havnt yet grasped the concept of mutiple CPUs, oh and VST/RTAS/AU etc seems to be the spawn of the devil

[Guest Anonymous]

I've also noticed some kind of compression going on, i thought it was just me at first but comparing exported wav files from Reaktor and others reveals some kind of dulling effect and atleast a few db loss in volume? This is especially so with Reasons drum sample loops. Even compression and careful eq fails to add that missing sparkle or ooomph, i decided not to use it for anything other than twisting and mangling wav files and soon i may uninstall it.

Reason is very useful though, a cpu friendly sketch pad but rarely contemplate using it for anything other than quick ideas. Infact i have yet to hear an high quality demo done entirely with it.

I always recommend Reason to beginners, it offers more than just the basics, many soon out grow its sound and midi limitations.

[daFunkyUnit]

For me, I'm starting to use Reason more and more for accoustic drums (w/ the DrumKits refill, of course). I think it works pretty well when you need non-electronic drums.

[Paolo Di Nicolantonio]

Reason can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. You cannot simply dismiss it as a compositional sketch pad, because you can certainly use it to compose finished tracks. If you treat it as a compositional sketch pad, you've only scratched the surface imho, or you haven't taken the time to learn to use it properly.

http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=listentoreason

[Yoozer]

I'm a happy puppy!

The orchestral stuff is excellent and beats my XP-30's orchestral expansion. The EP is better than EVP73. The grand piano rocks and is nicely detailed.

I've started the job of importing the E-mu sample CDs I have. I have to find a way to import my Yamaha A4000 cd's.

I'm also going to put a lot of my studio gear into this; not for selling it off, but for easier accessibility.

[malfunkt]

I have the opportunity to listen to Reason on audiophile grade equipment.

If you are using it at high sample rates and your sample sources loaded into Reason are 24-bit 48kHz+ you will get excellent sound quality in replication.

Where you will start losing sound quality is through harmonic distortion, aliasing and through other effects on the waveform. This occurs when using Reason's effects, mixers, and other devices.

Now, Reason is no slouch, it will give you 'CD quality' sound and its effects (especially reverb) have improved... but you will not mixdown a classical orchestra n this program. There is a 'reason' why people use expensive analog mixers, Eventides, Lexicon, Transparent, B&W...

The question is, do YOU have a reason for using the most expensive and esoteric of equipment?

Although Reason simulates the experience is for the most part a simulation. It can get you 90% of the way there... If you must, then mixdown your parts in another program or at a pro studio with outboard effects, DSP plug-ins, analog synths, etc.

With regards to the sampler, yes there is aliasing. It is not perfect, but is more than adequate. There are hardware samplers that alias more... it is good, but I still miss the character of my ASR-10!

I really enjoy using this program, and I think more people would too if they didn't have so many options.

Challenge the way you look at your kit. you don't have to use it all at once...

Liam Howlett from the Prodigy is a good example of someone who walked away from piles of gear to get back to basics. He used Reason on their last album to get 90% of the way there... of course he utilized samples of REAL analogs and other gear in his kit (Reason can't growl and squelch like an MS-20). He then mixed down in a pro studio..

[orangefunk]

Malfunkt, I wholeheartedly agree...

I just wish the sequencer was better and then I'd be quite happy... I don't like how you can't name individual parts or the way that you have to draw a band round the notes to create a block... why can't it be like Cubase... damn...

I am going almost 100% the software route.. I still will keep the CX3, Z1 and piano though...

[silver_shake]

Originally posted by malfunkt I have the opportunity to listen to Reason on audiophile grade equipment. The question is, do YOU have a reason for using the most expensive and esoteric of equipment?

 

 

No, i just have decent mackie hr824 monitors, they are nothing special, but the difference is obvious EVEN on those, which are by no means audiophile in quality.

[silver_shake]

Originally posted by malfunkt Liam Howlett from the Prodigy is a good example of someone who walked away from piles of gear to get back to basics. He used Reason on their last album to get 90% of the way there... of course he utilized samples of REAL analogs and other gear in his kit (Reason can't growl and squelch like an MS-20). He then mixed down in a pro studio..

Have u actually listened to that album where they used Reason exclusively? It sounds hella distorted, over compressed, over limited. It sounds weak and thin.

This album (where they pretty much exclusively used reason for production) is there worst album so far IMO. And i'm actually a big fan of Prodigy.

I don't mean to be Rude but this is a very bad example

[LANSTARR]

Originally posted by Yoozer After a long, long, long time I finally downloaded the Reason demo and played around with it. I recently bought a separate controller (E-mu Xboard 49) ; not that my AN1x wasn't doing well, but that thing's a really nice compact board, and it only needs USB. I also have my brother borrow it; I'm trying to nudge him a bit in the music direction. I can almost kick myself for being so stupid and stubborn for not trying it out earlier. It's immensely fun to play around with; it works very intuitive. The only drawback is that the 19" rack doesn't scale over my dual monitor system, but hey. Subtractor isn't "cool out of the box" like my Virus, but still very nice and usable - spectral waveforms, even. I find it to have a rather glassy character, a bit "early VA" - but it was released a while ago anyway. Let's hope Reason 4 comes with a more vintage-ey mono-synth with more balls in the bass department. Anyway, what the main gist of this post is: eventually I arrived at NN-19. It's a simple sampler. It accepts .wav files without a problem. Open something, loop it, and you can play it instantly. Amazing. This is something that my hardware samplers (A4000, ESI4000) never gave me before; that ease of use. Chaining a few effects after it was just as easy, so ending up with a relatively simple but sweet single-cycle synthesizer voice (or the Fairlight Arr vocals). Again, amazing. So I finally ventured into the realm of software samplers. I got the Kontakt 2.0 demo. It does the same as NN-19, only much better. Again, I can almost kick myself for being so stupid by thinking hardware would do the job better or that I could do without it. It is made of god and win. It can solve so many of the earlier hurdles; it's incredible. I'm a convert . Now, the only obstacle is selling the old samplers or saving up.

Wow welcome to 4 yrs ago LOL