Members gr8fuldodd Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Considering the studio equipment and post production of recorded music, is it really feasible to get some of the tones that we all know and love? Is it just sometimes impossible to recreate with just your guitar, pedals, and amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Originally posted by gr8fuldodd Considering the studio equipment and post production of recorded music, is it really feasible to get some of the tones that we all know and love?no Originally posted by gr8fuldodd Is it just sometimes impossible to recreate with just your guitar, pedals, and amp? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJLantz444 Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Thanks for the input GuyaGuy No, I don't think so, because especially on newer records, the tones are just so processed. With an amp modeler you may be able to come close though, seeing as many (like the Pod XT) I have post production things built into them also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fusionid Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 have you heard of line 6? I just keep thinking that it is better to keep reinventing tone than to recreate the same thing over and over. Are you looking for something specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Originally posted by DJLantz444 Thanks for the input GuyaGuy No, I don't think so, because especially on newer records, the tones are just so processed. With an amp modeler you may be able to come close though, seeing as many (like the Pod XT) I have post production things built into them also. well, fine the i'll bull{censored} for a while...you're right about production. unfortunately that processed tone has become the norm so people find it strange at a show if the amps aren't miked even though the venue only holds 100 people. but also--even on recordings from the 50s/60s--there are other means of processing that you're hearing aside from the actual amp/fx/guitar: the preamp, the compressor, the mic, the air, the room, etc. um...yeah...enough BSing for now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChitownTerror Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Most of what you hear on records isn't really amps or pedals, but mics, mic-placement, room sounds, and recording preamps. Move a microphone slightly to the left, use a different mic, or even 2" tape instead of digital recording and all of a sudden, things sound different.Sure, you can get kinda close with modelers and the right gear, but you'll never sound exactly like what you hear on record. That's just the name of the game. Might as well try to figure out how to get a decent live sound that comes close without loosing too much sleep over it.edit : Beat me to it Guya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gr8fuldodd Posted April 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 What's Line 6? I know that sometimes I just hear a tone a love and I set out to see if I can cop it sometimes I do, sometimes I don'tthere are so many variables that I don't think I would ever be able to know precisely why I couldn't quite get a paricular soundI don't exactly own every piece of gear ever made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChitownTerror Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Originally posted by gr8fuldodd What's Line 6? I know that sometimes I just hear a tone a love and I set out to see if I can cop it sometimes I do, sometimes I don't there are so many variables that I don't think I would ever be able to know precisely why I couldn't quite get a paricular sound I don't exactly own every piece of gear ever made Buy yourself a cheap multi-track recorder or computer recording set up, a few decent mics, a book on recording and mixing, and experiment. Nothing teaches you about "tone" like recording, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Originally posted by ChitownTerror Buy yourself a cheap multi-track recorder or computer recording set up, a few decent mics, a book on recording and mixing, and experiment. Nothing teaches you about "tone" like recording, in my opinion. aye. if nothing else it's a good way to find out what you REALLY sound like. the microphone lends a more objective ear.having said that, i believe that recording isn't a mere "documentaion." any decision that affects the sound affects the music. even someone like Albini, who has a more laissez-faire approach, spends quite a bit of time with mic placement, etc. so whether you're processing the fudge out of the signal or trying to record it "as is," any decision is a deliberate one that will never be "neutral." now, having said all of THAT, it's also true that i know absolutely NOTHING about recording! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpectralJulian Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 I just got done with a recording session today, and I found I got the best sound by pluggin the line out of my bassman 135 straight into the mixer. Sounded better than the SM57 my friend brought over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orourke Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Don't forget the simple old trick of recording the same preformance from two sources. I often split my signal and recorded with two amps, or one dirty amp and another signal going direct, etc. I find it nearly impossible to get the tones in a live situation that I created on my own recordings, never mind trying to nail someone elses sound. If you hear a tone or part on a record that you like, the best you are going to do is create a reasonable faxsimile - just take it as inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Originally posted by orourke Don't forget the simple old trick of recording the same preformance from two sources. I often split my signal and recorded with two amps, or one dirty amp and another signal going direct, etc. I find it nearly impossible to get the tones in a live situation that I created on my own recordings, never mind trying to nail someone elses sound.If you hear a tone or part on a record that you like, the best you are going to do is create a reasonable faxsimile - just take it as inspiration. there ya go.that's the funny thing nowadays.the ole switcheroo.now people are trying to emulate the sound they get in the studio on stage! nothing wrong with that--just shows the importance of recording in modern music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stratmaster48 Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Originally posted by fusionid have you heard of line 6?I just keep thinking that it is better to keep reinventing tone than to recreate the same thing over and over. Agreed, when is everyone going to get the point....NEW IS FUN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bricks & Bones Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Turn the gain down and hit your strings harder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fernmeister Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 mostly it is not going to happen. some recording tricks have been mentioned already. the first typical issue is the amount and kind of post-recording eq and compression that is often added to a guitar track. second is the effect of mastering on the whole track. what a lot of people are doing when they are trying to reproduce a recorded sound at home is as much to do with reproducing the effects of mastering and mixing as the sound of the original guitar and amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wilbo26 Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Originally posted by fernmeister mostly it is not going to happen. some recording tricks have been mentioned already.the first typical issue is the amount and kind of post-recording eq and compression that is often added to a guitar track. second is the effect of mastering on the whole track.what a lot of people are doing when they are trying to reproduce a recorded sound at home is as much to do with reproducing the effects of mastering and mixing as the sound of the original guitar and amp. Definately. Post EQ and Compression makes a huge difference. I'll stick up for modellers too. They are consistant and easy to deal with, and you can make them sound even better when you mess with them in a recording program by adding EQ and Compression, reverb, or whatever the hell you think will make it sound better. Granted, recording with a cranked tube amp and good mic placement is always going to sound best, but you can get in the ballpark with most of the current modellers out there if you work at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bricks & Bones Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 Big distortion tracks are much less distorted than you think, and often have a clean track played exactly the same way beneath it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axe2 2001 Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 To answer the specific question, can you make an amp sitting in front of you sound like a professionally played, mixed and mastered song on the radio? NO WAY. Can you play it as well and go to a pro studio and get those results? YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 One of my mottos - the sound starts at the source. If it's not happening in the room, it's never going to be really happening. "Happening" being defined as a cool part that works with the overall arrangement, with great time / feel and pitch, and a tone that is appropriate for the track.I can do all sorts of things to the basic sound - not just in processing it, but in how I choose to record / capture it... but the better it sounds in the room, the better it's going to sound on tape / disk.What and how you play, and what you play through matters at least as much as what the engineer does insofar as basic tone. After that, we can muck it up or put polish on it, but we've got to have something to work with to get started. The better you are, and the better your sound, the better I can make you sound. And the better the sound sources and players, the better *I* sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stent Posted April 3, 2006 Members Share Posted April 3, 2006 ive nailed sounds before, but they are so easy to lose. set your amp up, play for a bit then step a couple of feet to the left or right and the sounds is different. Keep standing in the same place and you keep the tone for a while then as your strings age your sound changes again. play the strings over the neck pickup, then play the same riff strumming over the bridge pickup and every position in between. different sounds. Figure out how to completely nail a sound? i bit it gets drowned out when you're in a band situation. to me that's why it's important to find your own sound, cos then you can always nail it, and when you alter it, it's still yours. just use guitars/amps/pedals to get you close to where you eant to be and then just let your own sound come through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bricks & Bones Posted April 4, 2006 Members Share Posted April 4, 2006 Originally posted by stent ive nailed sounds before, but they are so easy to lose. set your amp up, play for a bit then step a couple of feet to the left or right and the sounds is different. Keep standing in the same place and you keep the tone for a while then as your strings age your sound changes again. play the strings over the neck pickup, then play the same riff strumming over the bridge pickup and every position in between. different sounds. Figure out how to completely nail a sound? i bit it gets drowned out when you're in a band situation. to me that's why it's important to find your own sound, cos then you can always nail it, and when you alter it, it's still yours. just use guitars/amps/pedals to get you close to where you eant to be and then just let your own sound come through. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ArrMatey Posted April 4, 2006 Members Share Posted April 4, 2006 It also depends what mics and preamps you use to record. I'm sure in the 70's, a lot of guitars were recorded with condensers. I saw images of people micing up with ribbon mics or u87s. Quite crazy but it just transcribes more naturaly the tone of your guitar than a dynamic but sometimes, that dynamic is just what you need to cut through the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matter-Eater Lad Posted April 4, 2006 Members Share Posted April 4, 2006 The thing people always forget it seems, especially those dudes trying for EVH's old sound is : Mixing Board Equalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wilbo26 Posted April 4, 2006 Members Share Posted April 4, 2006 I think overdubbing is another big difference between what you hear in your room and what you hear on records. Phils advice is pretty dead on as well. Different rooms and mic setups can make a huge difference. I used to have my amp set up in a room with floating wood floors that was pretty big, and when I played sitting on the other side of the room I got some incredible tone as the guitar sound echoed around the room. In my new apartment I'm playing in a small room, and along with not being able to play as loud, I don't get the sound of playing it in a large, open room anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crimson on pink Posted April 4, 2006 Members Share Posted April 4, 2006 i'm pretty damn close to cave in's tone. close but not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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