Can you use a looper with a live band?

[hugbot]

I'm looking to get into looping but I have this question.

 

Every time I've seen a guitarist live using a looper it's been one guy making sounds. Is it possible to use a looper with a bassist and drummer? I imagine it would be a massive hassle trying to keep the loops in time.

 

Basicially I could have enough fun with it on my own but love to have the looper as a fake second guitarist. Get to a bit in the song where you need two guitars and then fire off a preredorded one shot phrase to accompany you. Is this possible? Anyone use loopers in a band>

[YourHerodDGC]

I do it a lot. It's pretty easy. The only thing you have to make sure you get down is being able to make the loop without the seam in the end.

[Dharmabum]

See the band Nice Nice. Only a guitarist and a drummer though. {censored}ing sheer genius. Good albums are Chrome and the Yess ep.

[DylanWilde]

Yeah Yeah Yeah's are all about it.

[The Tortoise]

so were don caballero on american don and early the cancer conspiracy...

[piut]

 

Originally posted by The Tortoise so were don caballero on american don

 

 

+1

[endo23]

Doesn't dude in Minus the Bear run like 4 DL-4s at a time with loops?

 

At any rate, I play loops in my band...

 

I don't have a looper that "stores" loops b/w gigs, so I have to play the part live and loop it, but with practice anything is possible. It's helpful to put the looper's output really loud in the drummer's monitor so he can play along with it.

[piut]

 

Originally posted by endo23 Doesn't dude in Minus the Bear run like 4 DL-4s at a time with loops?

 

 

he uses them for triggering short loops/samples, i think. unlike don cab

[ollenorin]

when you play live with loopers....do you have them go into yr main amp or do you connect them directly to the PA or something ?

[NITEFLY182]

www.myspace.com/reflux - that dude loops most parts in his songs and plays over them.

[hugbot]

Ah ok.

 

The theme today for my thoughts is "beefing up a 1 guitar band"

 

I was watching some YYY's live videos and assuming I wanted to hook up a drum machine like they do and keep it in sync the drummer would have to be playing to the same midi thing that was timing the drum machine yes? I notice their drummer has headphones on. But I dont know what device you would use to do this?

[gambit]

i've only ever used my RC-20 looper to playback either a looping synth pad (where the start and stop of the loop is not audible) or to play an intro to a song.

 

i have loaded drum beats, and other guitar lines into it, but trust me, it is a bitch to replicate with a live drummer.

 

if you are recording on the fly all manner of things could go wrong.

 

if you play back a pre-recorded part chances are it will be way out of time with what you are actually playing leading up to it.

 

i'm happy just using loops for ambience or intro/outro's of songs (like piano), so it doesn't bother me too much. but having a setup where you need the signal going into the p.a. and making sure the drummer has the same signal through his monitor/headphones would piss me right off. i have enough things to think about!!

 

I have my RC-20 play directly out to fx return on my amp head (so it's clean while i can still play distorted guitar). easily enough volume on stage to match your guitar signal.

[Fred5]

I run loops through my main amp, but I put the loops on a separate channel - I have an old Traynor top similar to a Twin Reverb. So I can mix the loops' levels separate from my guitar.

 

We also have a drummer with big ears and he can groove with a loop no problem. Also, the loops are not a main

thing in the music AND we don't play real loud - that could easily make everything sound like poop.

[slc_dan]

I use a lot of loops,

 

mostly ambient stuff that doesn't need to be in time.

[outofmoney]

it is hard as hell.

[hugbot]

So how about this, you get the drummer to play to a click and then sync the loops to the same bpm as the song. So they wont immediately start going out of time when triggered?

 

Only problem is, I dont think most pedal loopers measure time in BPM, are there any that do?

[endo23]

GDan,

 

The truth is you don't want to use a looper as a "second guitar" live. This is practically impossible, unless you're Jon Brion, and you're not. (Nobody is.) Without a lot of MIDI skills, complex patching and PA equipment, there's just no way to keep it all in sync.

 

Loopers are great for ambient stuff, and also for one-shot type loops. For example, while my drummer plays the first few bars of a tune, I can record a riff and store it. Then, rather than letting the looped riff just play for the whole song (which will cause it to drift out of time and sound like ASS), I'll trigger the loop on the one whenever appropriate. This way, the loop is always in sync, but it requires a steady toe-tap and it's not the kind of thing you'd want to do all the time, on every song.

 

To sum up, if you want to be in a two-guitar band, get a second guitarist. If you want to expand the sonic possibilities of YOUR guitar, a looper is an excellent way to do so.

[NITEFLY182]

I have no probelems looping live. You just have to punch in and out well.

[piut]

Originally posted by endo23 GDan, The truth is you don't want to use a looper as a "second guitar" live. This is practically impossible, unless you're Jon Brion, and you're not. (Nobody is.)

 

ian williams (don cab) does them fine. :mad:

[endo23]

Fair enough, but my guess is anyone who's doing tons of looping live probably has a pretty complex rig set up for it... but I could be wrong... maybe they're just incredibly good at stepping at a DL-4 in perfect time.

[hugbot]

 

Originally posted by endo23 GDan, The truth is you don't want to use a looper as a "second guitar" live. This is practically impossible, unless you're Jon Brion, and you're not. (Nobody is.) Without a lot of MIDI skills, complex patching and PA equipment, there's just no way to keep it all in sync. Loopers are great for ambient stuff, and also for one-shot type loops. For example, while my drummer plays the first few bars of a tune, I can record a riff and store it. Then, rather than letting the looped riff just play for the whole song (which will cause it to drift out of time and sound like ASS), I'll trigger the loop on the one whenever appropriate. This way, the loop is always in sync, but it requires a steady toe-tap and it's not the kind of thing you'd want to do all the time, on every song. To sum up, if you want to be in a two-guitar band, get a second guitarist. If you want to expand the sonic possibilities of YOUR guitar, a looper is an excellent way to do so.

 

 

Thats kind of what I want to do though. I dont want a full on second guitarist as much as I want little one shot bits to add on to the song.

 

In fact, what I want isnt so much a second guitarist as a keyboardist without actually getting a keyboardist. I'm beginning to think that a proper sampler is what I want, rather than a floorboard pedal looper. The Boss RC50 has sync, but I dont need 7 freaking pedals.

 

You're right though, this is looking to be an expensive task. Its a shame that there seems to be nothing simple out there to do what I would consider to be a pretty simple job:

 

Send out a click for the drummer.

Play samples when triggered, in time with the click.

 

*Sigh*

[sonaboy]

 

Originally posted by GDan I'm looking to get into looping but I have this question. Every time I've seen a guitarist live using a looper it's been one guy making sounds. Is it possible to use a looper with a bassist and drummer? I imagine it would be a massive hassle trying to keep the loops in time. Basicially I could have enough fun with it on my own but love to have the looper as a fake second guitarist. Get to a bit in the song where you need two guitars and then fire off a preredorded one shot phrase to accompany you. Is this possible? Anyone use loopers in a band>

 

 

i do it all the time.

 

and i don't use pre-recorded loops either. i make them as i go.

 

the trick is - you have to have enough time to record at least 2 passes of the loop. you get a first try, and if you mess it up, you quickly turn it off and hit it on the second pass.

 

my band usually repeats bars 4 times, or 6 times.

this again, allows me a good chunk of time to play the passage the first time, hit the looper to catch the "trail" of the first passage fading into the second (so there's no "click" or reset sound, just a smooth wrap). the record the full second pass, and close it before the third.

 

i also try and keep them short - so, in the rare instance that the OTHER members of the band have to play to me, i can reset the loop to keep everything in time. say, if you have a riff , try and play it twice so you can do a bit of your own quantizing to help your drummer.

 

another thing you should think of is - use the loop as a backdrop sound that doesn't require absolute timing to add to the song. use some notes that will go with anything being played in that section of the song, then harmonize riffs over THAT. you should loop the guitar part that requires less attention and rhythm than the others, and play the riff that requires some focus and a little nuance yourself.

 

the two songs in our myspace page use loops as second guitar parts - you can hear the "My Shellshocked Snail Shell" loop more clearly out of the two though.

[Fred5]

If you look at looping as an extention of playing guitar, it's no big deal - you just have to put some work into it and develop some skills relevant to the way you want to use it.