What is the draw of "Vintage" Synths?

[mwalthius]

So Mike...what do you think of the Jupiter-8?

 

 

I spent the summer of 1983 selling synthesizers at a musical instrument store on 48th Street in midtown Manhattan. We sold everything - Polymoogs, Korg Monopolys, Prophets -- all the totally cool analog stuff at the time. We even had Emu Emulators - the first models, I think. They were totally alien in their day.

 

Out of all the wicked stuff we carried in the store, if I could've had anything it would've been a Jupiter 8. I never had enough money for one myself, but I really could demo the {censored} out of it, and recall selling quite a few. Sounded great and looked absolutely awesome.

[pighood]

....memories....

I bought a Jupiter-8 in December 1988 ($700) to replace a Juno-6 ($200). I knew jack cheese about synths, and bothered the salesman about the acronyms on the case. Like explaining calculus to a bluebottle fly larva.

The last illegal substance I ingested was on New Year's Eve 1989. Under its influence, I strapped on my finest AKG headphones, connected the line outs to a cassette deck, and spazzed for 45 solid minutes, an outtake of which I'm listening to now while typing this.

Here's me about a year later with my rig:

www.flickr.com/photos/pighood/320049181/in/set-72157594392215762/

That Jupe stayed in my studio for a decade. An amazing machine indeed. Glad to see its renaissance in the virtual realm...with velocity sensitivity.

[ElectricPuppy]

Some pretty sweet firepower for 1990.

Also: You are not what I pictured.

[pighood]

It's a pig's priority to surprise and delight.

 

Plus, my sweaters were redder in those days.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hello. I have been playing my Roland D-550 and I believe I can get many of the same sounds as a Juno or Juniper. The D-550 has some really nice saw pads once you get away from the "fairy laden" patches.

 

Thank me.

[realtrance]

A little Jupiter action, I believe...or maybe just JD-990, hard to tell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr7ckOb_ZWE

It's funny, though, in the earlier days of the song's performance, the keys guy was sent to a corner where he would hopefully not be seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFV58c7ho70

[Guest Anonymous]

Whatch this. It is really good.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ci9BqI9H5c&mode=related&search=

 

This is me singing.

[MarkShovel2]

Regarding Pighood's comment on the VST Jupiter 8 and velocity sensing, I have been sampling the OB-8 with my Fantom X8. The results are really good but still lack some of the random nature of the OB-8. The stereo panning pots on the OB-8 make a huge impact on the feeling that the synth is alive. However, it is really nice to have the velocity modulation generated by the sample playback of the Fantom.

The real issue to me about the Vintage Synths is the tone. They did not have reverb and echo, but still sound great. Today's synths seem to heavily rely on effects. As you turn those effects off, the sounds are less spectacular. In a full arrangement, those effects can make everything less distinct. I find the basic tone quality of the Oberheim is somewhat equivalent to the basic tone quality of a Les Paul and Marshal amp. It is a very special voice in the mix. The Oberheim voice is up to the task of competing with the guitar tone. It is not whimpy!

Tone references:
Acoustic guitar with new strings and piezo bridge pickup
Acoustic piano
Les Paul and Marshall amp
Strat and Fender amp
OBERHEIM pads
MOOG bass and lead



Mark

[MarkShovel2]

That is disturbing...

Still think the Eddie Murphy as Buckwheat "tree times a mady" was a classic.

I'm gonna have to buy SNL season 1 on DVD.

Mark

[fozzie]

Whatch this. It is really good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ci9BqI9H5c&mode=related&search= This is me singing.

This is asking for some high-powered automatic weapon action. And I'm actually a pacifist

[moogerfooger]

if I have to explaine it to ya -- ya wouldn't understand

I've had most of my vintage keyboards since they were new, and I can assure you - there is no substitute for a well maintained mini or rhodes, or hammond --

[Teoman]

What is special about vintage analogs? Sound and good teenage memories Vintage sound is definitely timeless...

[fozzie]

It's all about character.

[donaldcrunk]

It's a pig's priority to surprise and delight.

 

 

ok, the mmt8 n hr16 set up like that look hilarious. you seriously need more extendable hydraulic arms to come in and out of your cockpit, holding various items like tiny keyboards and... food.

 

or some kind of pod that descends over the top, so you can breathe pure oxygen as you synthesize. yeah. i wish i was you.

[NYCCane]

go out and play a virus, then an ion, then an ms2000, then a nord lead, then a little phatty, voyager, SE-1, and A6 Andy......Cream yourself over how good they sound.....and then play a minimoog and realize that you can never go back to any of the aforementioned b/c your ears will change and NOTHING sounds as good for ballsy bass, leads, screams, squelches, worms, oozings, etc. its amazing how good other mini clones sound UNTIL U PLAY A 70's Model D.....and no it's NOT just a myth, or the mysticality of the older gear, it SOUNDS BETTER, and PLAYS better, and if you cant tell that, then don't worry bout which synth is the tits anyways )

[Qwave]

1. Can't the new synths of "today" reproduce the same quality of sound from Vintage synths if not better?

Newer synths sound different.
Some of the always imperfect vintage got some unique sound unreached by today synths. Ever played a real minimoog? If yes, then you know it is a great synth. Although it is way more limited then a Moog Voyager. Bzt way more beef in the sound.

2. Does owning a vintage synth make a person feel better?

simple personal answer: yes

3. Why do people spend so much money to buy something that is really old?

I bought two Moog in the early eighties. They were realy affordable then compared to todays mad priced on eBay.
But even to day you get some nice synths cheap if you are able and willing to give then some care (= solder iron)

4. What is the main draw to wanting to own a Vintage synth?

The sound plus the original look & feel, mainly.

Many new synths are not instruments but high-tech tools. No optic representation of an instrument. And way to much plastic.
And did you ever tried to repair a synth build after the introduction of computer controlled synths ?
Repairing vintage synth might be easier if you get the parts. Or if it is just a bad solder point.

[Cloacal-X]

go out and play a virus, then an ion, then an ms2000, then a nord lead, then a little phatty, voyager, SE-1, and A6 Andy......Cream yourself over how good they sound.....and then play a minimoog and realize that you can never go back to any of the aforementioned b/c your ears will change and NOTHING sounds as good for ballsy bass, leads, screams, squelches, worms, oozings, etc. its amazing how good other mini clones sound UNTIL U PLAY A 70's Model D.....and no it's NOT just a myth, or the mysticality of the older gear, it SOUNDS BETTER, and PLAYS better, and if you cant tell that, then don't worry bout which synth is the tits anyways )

You're talkin' a whole lotta wack. I've had high-end analog, I've had vintage analog. It didn't do much for me. I'm not going to say it doesn't have it's place, but what I've discovered is that for me, I actually kind of like a slightly harsh/plastic sound sometimes, and I really like being able to sequence complex controller automation, total project recall, and all those other little tricks and handy things that are only possible/practical in a software-based environment. Old {censored} might be better for you, but to imply that if you don't think a minimoog-D sounds better it's because you can't tell the difference just shows a lack of insight - I can tell the difference, I just don't agree that it's quite simply "better".

And quite honestly, there is quite a bit of fetishism as it regards vintage gear, and there aren't huge differences between the originals and clones or even digital emulations (at least the decent ones), there are small differences which are assigned a great importance. Now, I'm not going to go so far as to argue that these characteristics should *not* be assigned a great importance, but I do think it's important to distinguish between the two.

[pighood]

Correct once again. You're on a roll.

[NYCCane]

You're talkin' a whole lotta wack. I've had high-end analog, I've had vintage analog. It didn't do much for me. I'm not going to say it doesn't have it's place, but what I've discovered is that for me, I actually kind of like a slightly harsh/plastic sound sometimes, and I really like being able to sequence complex controller automation, total project recall, and all those other little tricks and handy things that are only possible/practical in a software-based environment. Old {censored} might be better for you, but to imply that if you don't think a minimoog-D sounds better it's because you can't tell the difference just shows a lack of insight - I can tell the difference, I just don't agree that it's quite simply "better". And quite honestly, there is quite a bit of fetishism as it regards vintage gear, and there aren't huge differences between the originals and clones or even digital emulations (at least the decent ones), there are small differences which are assigned a great importance. Now, I'm not going to go so far as to argue that these characteristics should *not* be assigned a great importance, but I do think it's important to distinguish between the two.

 

 

from a purely sonic perspective, nothing touches the mini (in terms of its clones, analog and digital)....which clone do u own? do u perform live?

[Cloacal-X]

from a purely sonic perspective, nothing touches the mini (in terms of its clones, analog and digital)....which clone do u own? do u perform live?

 

 

A) "From a purely sonic perspective" - what does that even mean? Honestly. From a purely sonic perspective, the measurable differences are pretty slight. The value you have assigned to those difference is (at least for you) great.

 

B)I don't own any mini clones* (it's not really a sound I'm after), and no. But I can tell you that I've heard plenty of synth bass coming out of VA at a live show that blew me away, and I've heard plenty of analog bass (including that from a model D) that sounded like {censored}. It probably sounded huge onstage, but through the house system...{censored}. I'm not saying that's always the case at all, but I think a lot of artists are pretty deluded when it comes to what they think makes them sound good onstage.

 

*I do own a TB-303 clone(x0xb0x), and a few software emulations. I used to have a TB-303, but I sold it. I felt that the software sounds almost identical and is way more practical for the studio, and the hardware has the feel down pat, aside from also sounding nearly identical and being a nearly 1:1 hardware clone anyway.

[Paolo Di Nicolantonio]

I think it is because the synths have more experience, and have probably learned by now how to make a pleasing sound.

LOL Priceless.

[Umbra]

A lot of it is just BS and lazy musicians looking for shortcuts to make them sound better. Another big part is misconceptions about VA's. With a va you don't want a dry oscillator woobling all over the place as that limits what you can do with it. If you need the oscillators tuning going out, etc you have to program that in.

Even if vintage did sound better, after all the eq, being squished by a compressor, reverb, bla bla bla it's going to sound the same as a va anyway.

The real value to vintage at this point is either nostalga or bragging rights(a.k.a. to feel more important).

[donaldcrunk]

The real value to vintage at this point is either nostalga or bragging rights(a.k.a. to feel more important).

 

 

-2 points for oversimplification, but still a 98. i pretty much agree. i have no problem with VA's, having played a few vintages in my day. VA's will be vintages someday too . . . maybe. ..

[pighood]

I predict that circumstances will occur.

[NYCCane]

A) "From a purely sonic perspective" - what does that even mean? Honestly. From a purely sonic perspective, the measurable differences are pretty slight. The value you have assigned to those difference is (at least for you) great. B)I don't own any mini clones* (it's not really a sound I'm after), and no. But I can tell you that I've heard plenty of synth bass coming out of VA at a live show that blew me away, and I've heard plenty of analog bass (including that from a model D) that sounded like {censored}. It probably sounded huge onstage, but through the house system...{censored}. I'm not saying that's always the case at all, but I think a lot of artists are pretty deluded when it comes to what they think makes them sound good onstage. *I do own a TB-303 clone(x0xb0x), and a few software emulations. I used to have a TB-303, but I sold it. I felt that the software sounds almost identical and is way more practical for the studio, and the hardware has the feel down pat, aside from also sounding nearly identical and being a nearly 1:1 hardware clone anyway.

 

 

so u dont own any mini clones, LET ALONE a mini.....how r u qualified to judge the value of vintage synths versus modern ones then? play a gig with the VA, and then play one with a mini, and you will be inspired by the fact tht you are playing a real musical instrument, not a playback device to give you a sound.