Members Brian Marshall Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 You can probably bet this isnt the norm, out of 10,000 of those clocks target sold, probably a handful of them crapped out. If its between taking that slim chance, or spending $200 for a nice USA made clock, i'll take my chances..Maybe one day I'll be able to afford to do otherwise, but like many, I cant. SO until then... nope that's not the way china is... if they make one thing that sucks... pretty much all of them will... if they make one pretty well they will probably make all of them that way. Chinese business people's goals are to not lose money... not to make money... so they wont retool until they've broken even usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 I long for the days when people don't hate those who have prospered. Every bit of extravagance that an owner/ceo engages in employs many; of course you don't know any of them, but you benefit from their wealth. This sort of reactionary thinking is what gave Lenin is power. I hate people who prosper exploiting others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 I'm sure there are tons or reasons to buy the $200 clock. It might look prettier, it might be sturdier, it might have a LIFETIME warrenty!That doesnt change the fact that I cant afford the $200 clock, so I WILL choose the $20 chinese clock, as apposed to going clockless...THE END. if we didnt import all our goods from places that use slave labor and have no environmental protections, there would be more jobs, and more money as demand for labor goes up for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fatstrat57 Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 I hate people who prosper exploiting others. Define exploitation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shaun126 Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 You miss the point I am trying to make. If you buy quality you support businesses who are more likely paying their employees better than those in China. When the cycle continues those employees will buy the goods and services your employer offers and in turn your employer can pay you better. I understand your theory, but that still doesnt change the fact that I cant pay that much money, regardless if it "betters everyones lives". Also, if you actually believe your "cycle" is possible in the world we live in, (and I dont think you do) you have way to much faith in humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 Define exploitation Wages that don't remotely keep up with the rate of productivity. in contrast with Executive compensation that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angelhair0 Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 Immitation is a form of flattery.Especially when you're trying to take the credit for it, and make money off of it. Ask Monsterpiece who he models his fuzz pedals after. He'll tell ya. He's proud of it and not hiding anything.C Fuzz, you are right in some cases. But when people lie, cheat and take advantage of others while they are imitating, it's different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fatstrat57 Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 if we didnt import all our goods from places that use slave labor and have no environmental protections, there would be more jobs, and more money as demand for labor goes up for you. As I recall as recently as the 1900's the very same could be said of most industry in Europe. Why did it improve? Was it socialist intervention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 Define exploitation i'm going to jump in here, and say that i dont believe most workers in china are exploited, although the environment probably is, and china is using voodoo economics to prop up their growth... what happens when they cant afford to set their currency to the dollar anymore... well by that time they will probably own everything anyways. a lot of garment manufacturers do exploit people though... and it's not just on cheap target or kmart clothes.... it's practically anything. hell you can have 12 year olds in saipan work 15 hour days working to pay for being smuggled out of whatever terrible place they were, because they were told they were being taken to the USA... stuff made in saipan can legally cary a 'made in usa' lable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shepherdspy Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 That happens all the time. They call it rap. Awasome! Siganature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 I understand your theory, but that still doesnt change the fact that I cant pay that much money, regardless if it "betters everyones lives". Also, if you actually believe your "cycle" is possible in the world we live in, (and I dont think you do) you have way to much faith in humanity. I do believe it is possible. People have to get fed up enough with McJobs and plastic junk. That day may be closer than we think... Anecdotally, the new Harry Potter race to the bottom had stores LOSING money on every transaction. WTF? How do you make money by losing it? Unless the goal is to put independent shops out of business. But that is still insane of publishers and distributors to permit it to happen. They are putting their clients out of business to be at the mercy of fewer larger clients who will then have the muscle to name their prices for everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shepherdspy Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 Personally, I just think...Germans hate Zvex! :cry:And the transgendered, they hate him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 As I recall as recently as the 1900's the very same could be said of most industry in Europe. Why did it improve? Was it socialist intervention? You're the one talking about socialism. I never ONCE said it. What I am talking about is responsible capitalism that realizes there HAS to be a tomorrow. Don't put words into my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shaun126 Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 I do believe it is possible. People have to get fed up enough with McJobs and plastic junk. That day may be closer than we think... Not in your lifetime, yours kids lifetime, or your grandkids lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 i'm going to jump in here, and say that i dont believe most workers in china are exploited, although the environment probably is, and china is using voodoo economics to prop up their growth... what happens when they cant afford to set their currency to the dollar anymore... well by that time they will probably own everything anyways.a lot of garment manufacturers do exploit people though... and it's not just on cheap target or kmart clothes.... it's practically anything. hell you can have 12 year olds in saipan work 15 hour days working to pay for being smuggled out of whatever terrible place they were, because they were told they were being taken to the USA... stuff made in saipan can legally cary a 'made in usa' lable. You can't exploit the planet irresponsibly either cause then how will you earn money tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 Not in your lifetime, yours kids lifetime, or your grandkids lifetime. Things have changed dramatically in the past decade since I've been working. You'll see it too in time. I am optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fatstrat57 Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 I do believe it is possible. People have to get fed up enough with McJobs and plastic junk. That day may be closer than we think... On this point I will agree. Better consumer choices are the only way to better goods. Anecdotally, the new Harry Potter race to the bottom had stores LOSING money on every transaction. WTF? How do you make money by losing it? Unless the goal is to put independent shops out of business. But that is still insane of publishers and distributors to permit it to happen. They are putting their clients out of business to be at the mercy of fewer larger clients who will then have the muscle to name their prices for everything else. Selling below cost. It's what grocery stores do with milk, the goal being to draw customers in for other purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shaun126 Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 Things have changed dramatically in the past decade since I've been working. You'll see it too in time. I am optimistic. I do hope you are right, but I think if you look at the big picture, look outside the business you know, you are very, very wrong. We live in a wal-mart world, and it's not changing anytime soon. In fact, its going in the opposite direction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fatstrat57 Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 Don't put words into my mouth. I did not. Ironically, you however are putting words in mine. Be ashamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angelhair0 Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 Not in your lifetime, yours kids lifetime, or your grandkids lifetime. I'm fairly young but I'm old enough to know better than to buy a Behringer pedal, most skate shoes, or ear phones from the dollar store. Almost any time a company is convincing you that you are getting a sweet deal, they are in fact convincing you to let yourself get ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 As I recall as recently as the 1900's the very same could be said of most industry in Europe. Why did it improve? Was it socialist intervention? maybe labor unions had a bit to do with it. i may be misunderstanding you, but im pretty sure slavery in europe was gone well before 1900. granted economies need time to grow, and often in the beginning, environmental rules, and work safety go by the wayside. Certainly globalization has the capability to bring up most of the world closer to places like the US, the EU, Japan, Australia and others. In fact, i'll even give credit to china for doing a lot of things right, but at the same time, they are pulling a lot of dirty tricks to make it happen, and we are enabling them to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shepherdspy Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 I did not. Ironically, you however are putting words in mine. Be ashamed.I'm sure Nic will cry himself to sleep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 I understand your theory, but that still doesnt change the fact that I cant pay that much money, regardless if it "betters everyones lives". Also, if you actually believe your "cycle" is possible in the world we live in, (and I dont think you do) you have way to much faith in humanity. it DID happen in our world in the past, and it will probably happen again as well. Take a look at the US economy from the 1940's to the mid 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 You can't exploit the planet irresponsibly either cause then how will you earn money tomorrow? but if your competitors are doing it, and you have to compete with them or go out of business what choice do you have???? certainly you can see how it can be justified... it's ciclycal (sp???) but that's how a lot of industries are going right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 On this point I will agree. Better consumer choices are the only way to better goods. Selling below cost. It's what grocery stores do with milk, the goal being to draw customers in for other purchases. Yes I realize this. Places like Circuit City take losses on CD's and DVDs and barely make money off of computers and probably wouldn't if it weren't for intangibles like extended warranties. Care to address my point about the effects of this on distributors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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