censorship

[T-Bot]

It's not a privelige in America, it's a right, for the record. Big difference. A privelage is a cookie after you do your homework. Also, free speach includes what you would call intolerable whining, wether you like it or not. It's not a question of justification. There's either free speach or there isn't. Here, obviously, there isn't. Understood.

 

 

No, its a privilege. Because America gives you the right to that privilege does not make it any less of a privilege. Being lucky enough to have been born or to live in a country like the US is a privilege. If you were born in a country like Ethiopia you wouldn't be here saying that free speech is simply a right. It is a right you all take for granted, every minute of every day and your post clearly reflects it.

 

It is most certianly a question of justification. Go and live in a country that doesn't give its population the privilege of free speech and you will quickly realise how much you took for granted. You will also quickly learn how niave and narrow-minded it is to ever consider using it to justify your actions on an internet forum about keyboards of all places.

[G-bus v2.0]

You all have valid points. However, HC also has its own valid point while not allowing such threads promoting or favoring the use of an illegal substance.

 

 

It seems HC is not as adamant about closing all threads promoting drug use as you are.

 

Below are several open threads containing discussions promoting the use of illegal substances. I trust you will be contacting the mods of each forum to inform them that they shall be closed?

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1535991&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1432745&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1503866&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1569709&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1477574&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1472459&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1476969&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1566002&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1523396&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1547119&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1557819&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1579509&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1594681&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1554876&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1590945&highlight=illegal+drugs

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1458276&highlight=illegal+drugs

[electrobaby]

say know to drugs

[Gus Lozada]

It is a good thing you finally spent some time doing something "useful".

However, all those threads are in forums without moderators OR created for the sole purpose of talking nonsense and/or discussing politics.

The threads at Guitar Jam -the only with moderators from all the others you mentioned and NOT intended to be only silly or totally open places for whatever discussion- are responsibility of its mods. If they think it is good for their forum, I'm glad they do. I'll take your advise and let them know, but it is still up to them.


Unfortunately for you, I'm the mod in here and Paolo agrees with me in the most of the decisions. He even created a separate thread to know other people's opinion.


Do not waste your and my time with this endless rant.
If you do not like this place, you are very welcome to leave.

[G-bus v2.0]

I guess HC must not care so much about threads about drugs, as you do.

Thanks for proving my point.

[urbanscallywag]

I'm sorry that the thread that I started ended up in a forum member, a member who I didn't always agree with, but who's bluntness I respected and opinion I valued, getting banned. I don't know if it's temporary or not so maybe it's not a big deal as I think it is.

I just wanted to add that your post specifically asked for no stoner jokes, which did put a little "drugs are bad" disclaimer on it. That's respectable.

 

[Gus Lozada]

I guess HC must not care so much about threads about drugs, as you do. Thanks for proving my point.

 

 

You are -kinda- welcome.

 

 

Could you just now be someone useful for the forum?

[Aylmer Lood]

*sigh* Seriously, the vast majority of countries on this planet don't give you the constitutional right of free speech at all. Treat it as the privilege that it is, instead of using it as a justification for your intolerable whinging.

 

 

I think that what you mean is that we are lucky, given the lack of freedom of speech elsewhere in the world, that we have it here. Surely you don't mean that, whether you call it a right, or a privilege, that we do not exercise it when we feel it is warranted. At least I hope not.

 

If it is a privilege to be able to exercise this right, it is because it is IMPORTANT.

[carbon111]

At least projectile vomiting presupposes that I am sick or possessed.

 

"Your mother sucks synths in hell..."

[controlvoltage]

remember when KSS was about synths?

 

I am in favor of heavy-handed moderation and bannings a-go-go until this place bears more of a resemblance to the community it once was. KSS used to be the premeire synth forum on the web. Now it's a nursery full of nonsense-babbling and silly games, or obsessive drama about nothing.... sh*t, I miss the OAYSYSYS firestorm, at least there was a synthesizer involved...

 

THIS FORUM NEEDS AN ENEMA

[The Severalist]

You will also quickly learn how niave and narrow-minded it is to ever consider using it to justify your actions on an internet forum about keyboards of all places.[/.

 

 

Maybe, I'm a slow learner. Personally, I didn't see anybody in this thread using freedom of speach to justify their actions, I think you misinterpreted that.

 

By the way, just throwing this out there, being bitter, presumptious and self rightous doesn't make you a better person then me or anybody else fwiw.

[Aylmer Lood]

remember when KSS was about synths? I am in favor of heavy-handed moderation and bannings a-go-go until this place bears more of a resemblance to the community it once was. KSS used to be the premeire synth forum on the web. Now it's a nursery full of nonsense-babbling and silly games, or obsessive drama about nothing.... sh*t, I miss the OAYSYSYS firestorm, at least there was a synthesizer involved... THIS FORUM NEEDS AN ENEMA

 

 

With friends like you, who needs one?

[carbon111]

I already quit this forum once because Droolmaster was banned (amongst other things that were going on at the time but that was the last straw) - I don't really want to do it again but the tribal factionalization of the users (and moderators too) has become maddening. If a card-carrying liberal like me can get along with an iconoclast conservative like Pighood, why can't everybody else just respect each other's opinions around here. We don't have to agree on everything, or anything for that matter, as long as we show a little respect...

...not likely, I suppose.

Ah well, regardless, I'd like to buy every last one of you bastards a beer at the local pub.

[urbanscallywag]

w0rd.

[The Severalist]

remember when KSS was about synths? I am in favor of heavy-handed moderation and bannings a-go-go until this place bears more of a resemblance to the community it once was. KSS used to be the premeire synth forum on the web. Now it's a nursery full of nonsense-babbling and silly games, or obsessive drama about nothing.... sh*t, I miss the OAYSYSYS firestorm, at least there was a synthesizer involved... THIS FORUM NEEDS AN ENEMA

This isn't a democracy, remember?

I fear me, pighood, and a few random other's are some of the sources of your woes, and I'm sorry if were at all messing things up for you. But, you know, your not the only person on this forum, there's many diverse tastes and personallities and it might be worth it to get used to that to some degree. I figure post what you think is appropriate and let other's do the same. It's not fair (if fairness is of any import) for people to be banned just because you go for a more straight ahead type of forum, or your annoyed by their sense of humour, and I don't see how what we might post keep's you from going "oh, more annoying crap" and skipping it. Use the ignore feature on the usual suspects and you won't even have to skip them. I think that's more fair and reaonable then banning people, when that option is readily available to any one whom wishes to use it.

If your were to ask me, I'd say live and let live, and if anybody doesn't go for that ban em back to the stone age. (just kidding, I haven't desired anybodies banning in quite a while in my four years on this board). If it bother's you so much, you know, {censored}, I'll try to reduce the more bizzare posts I make on non OT threads, and that's out of courtesy of course, not because I'm here to satisfy you, so don't get the wrong idea or anything. But in OT threads, if you can't stand the heat...

P.S. I will agree that the Chas thing got out of hand. Quite naturally, those shenanigans have ended.

Viva La France.

[pighood]

I was banned when I strayed into the poisonous partisan pit of the polly tickle potty by their now FORMER mao-derator, the very very 18-year old Fragged By Latvians.

Now that he's gone, I suppose I could venture back, but what's the point? A circle{censored}clusterjerk awaits.

I'd prefer having my kidneystones knitteded to my eyelids.

[The Severalist]

...the tribal factionalization of the users (and moderators too) has become maddening. If a card-carrying liberal like me can get along with an iconoclast conservative like Pighood, why can't everybody else just respect each other's opinions around here. We don't have to agree on everything , or anything for that matter, as long as we show a little respect ...

Agreed, if not always practiced.

[Birdienumnum]

---

[Birdienumnum]

Oh, and try googling "Bong Hits For Jesus".

[currently being debated in our Supreme Court, natch]

I guess if they can debate it, we can too . . . I hope.

[T-Bot]

 

I guess I missed the part in the constitution that said "the privilage to free speach." Replacing "right" with "privilage" is vaugely Orwellian, an issue that is not lost on a lot of us naive and narrow minded people here in the USA. That's basically the core problem I have with the terminology. America doesn't "give" us the right, it's a right our ancestors earned and fought for, a "right' as defined by the constitution, that we have the "privilige", to take for granted as you put it, nowadays. If there's a question of would we be willing and able to defend it in the modern day if it was threatened, that's another story all together.

 

 

The US constitution only dictates rights in the US. Between you and every other person in the USA you might not consider it a privilege... but the world doesn't consist of just the USA. Perhaps your problem with the terminology of "right" and "privilege" just reflects your dependence (whether acknowledged or not) on such rights or the perspective you have gained simply from growing up in a society that has always had such benefits. The very first dictionary meaning for the word "privilege" actually even uses "right" as part of its definition so there is absolutely nothing wrong with what I've said.

 

 

Uh-oh, you just used the term right. I thought it was a privilige? Yes, no, maybe? You must be narrow minded and naive and take it for granted every minute of every day, your post unequivacly makes that clear beyond the shadow of a doubt.

 

 

Call me narrow-minded if you want, but I am not the one arguing that a right you have within the United states of america is a right shared by the 6 billion people on this planet. It is a right limited to specific jurisdictions, to specific populations, to specific societies. That makes it not just a right in those societies but a privilege the individuals of those societies have over others.

 

 

You really don't know what I do every minute of every day, in fact I might be typing away in your attic (go check, I'll wait)

 

 

I don't have an attic. Perhaps you went to the wrong house.

 

 

If you want to make sweeping generalizations, i.e. "you all take for granted", be my guest, but it hurt's your argument, it basically reeks of innacuracy. Who are you talking about? The people on this forum? Americans? If it's the latter, there's likely people in this country much more aware of what your talking about then you are. Personally, I'm sure I do take it for granted to some degree. As an analogy I'm sure if I was dieing of thirst in the dessert a cup of ice tea would be a very different thing then it is to me now. I just see the practice of replacing right with privilige symbollicaly and pyschologically reductive and similar to the types of linguistic propaganda currently being used as one tool of many in this country to whittle away at our liberties to expand control, and it makes me suspicious. Sorry if my suspicion is clouding things.

 

 

Its not reductive or propaganda or anything of the kind. Its just correct use of the english language. If my original post clearly outlined that I was only referring to the USA you might have a point, but it certianly didn't. For free speech to simply be a right, and not a privilege it must apply to every single soul on this planet. It doesn't. This is a global forum too.

 

 

In Ehtiopia (ever been? just curious) I'm sure it's a different story, but in this country people fought and died to make sure it was a right everybody had and not a mere privilige. They didn't choose the term right because they were lazy, it has meaning.

 

 

Yes, I have been. They don't just lack constitutional rights, but in many situations don't even have basic human rights. It doesn't matter what word they chose, they chose it to apply only to the general public of the united states of america.

 

 

 

To use you reasoning I'm sure a women living in a relatively civilized part of the world would feel very different about womens rights if they were ever raped and beaten or forced into slavery in some god awful part of the world. Is it worth it? I'll skip on the trip to {censored}edupistan and becoming some shattered traumitzed person to learn not to take things for granted, thank you very much.

 

 

No, the only way you would think this is my reasoning is if you thought that countries with no free speech were in a somewhat barbaric state. My reasoning doesn't incite that anyone would be harmed. Just in case you weren't aware, countries like Australia and Singapore don't have any constitutional right to free speech.

 

 

I'll just take things for granted and be insulted every now and then by people bitter about the America's superiority when it comes to issues of civil liberties and the more relaxed attitude towards said liberties that comes from that.

 

 

America's superiority? At thinking America is superior? Or perhaps even the centre of the world? My post had nothing to do with being bitter about america's superiority it has everything to do with perspective. What makes you think America is superior? because it has free speech? because you are american? It seems anti-amercianism around the world is at an all time high, so I don't think its a view shared by the world. Some of the USA's constitutional rights have arguabley resulted in very negative things, like the Virginia Tech shooting for example.

 

 

I'm afraid I don't follow your logic here. My point was that, in it not being a question of justification, you don't have to justify it when it's your right. In this country, it's not freedom of speach as long as your able to justify it, you have free speach period, even if what your saying is god awful, i.e., it's not a question of justification. I've never lived in a country that doesn't have free speach and can't speak for that situation, so I guess I'll have to take your word for it on how I would feel or what I would do. Then again, I might not give a {censored} as long as I have a beer and a decent sex life. A right is something you fight for. As far as we go, been there done that, might have to do it again. Get on the ball N. Korea, it's not my job to feel ashamed of where I was born just because your a {censored}ty country.

 

 

Is the US army going to "liberate" Australia then? What about Singapore? China?

 

If its not a case of justification, why bring in up on an internet forum simply because a thread got deleted?

 

here it is again:

 

 

You're a bunch of corporate hacks who are looking for any excuse apparently to censor free speech.

 

 

It is certianly a post using free speech as an argument to try and justify an action (in this case, the thread that got deleted). If it wasn't used to argue his point, why did he ever mention it?

 

 

Maybe, I'm a slow learner. Personally, I didn't see anybody in this thread using freedom of speach to justify their actions, I think you misinterpreted that. By the way, just throwing this out there, being bitter, presumptious and self rightous doesn't make you a better person then me or anybody else fwiw.

 

 

That might me something if it came from someone who had exercised a broader perspective than just one consisting of what occurs within the USA. Where did you get the f*cked up thought that I was trying to make you feel ashamed of where you come from? I simply said that the right to free speech is a privilege (which it is, because it doesn't apply to everyone on this planet) thus should be used accordingly (ie. not for stupid internet forum scwobbles like this thread).

[Birdienumnum]

...

[The Severalist]

It doesn't matter what word they chose, they chose it to apply only to the general public of the united states of america.

 

 

Your talking about the US constitution yes? Perhaps I wasn't specific enough but I was referring to the US when I talked about a right as opposed to a privilige as specified in the constitution, which is what I thought the original posts in this thread were about. Your right, I was just considering the situation in my own country, the original post way back when by DM was about the US issue of free speach, and figured you were talking about the US as well, you didn't state otherwise, you don't have location on your profile and your english was very well spoken so I just kind of assumed you were an American talking about an America issue. Also I think this forum is US based, so you know...

[The Severalist]

No, the only way you would think this is my reasoning is if you thought that countries with no free speech were in a somewhat barbaric state. My reasoning doesn't incite that anyone would be harmed. Just in case you weren't aware, countries like Australia and Singapore don't have any constitutional right to free speech.

My mistake. The way you put it, "You'll see how quickly you take it for granted." I figured it would be some locale where I would be likely to expereince impactful reprucussions and see clearly the effect it would have, and assumed you were talking about a somewhat rough place. If I went to Austraillia for a few days I honestly don't think I'd give a creep or it would have any huge impact on me, but who knows.

America's superiority?

In many way's, yes. For example, democracy is better then theocracy, womens rights are better then lack there of, free speach is better, freedom of the press is better, the right to free assembly is better, etc. I'd say that's just my opinion but shyt, it seem's like a fact to me, call me crazy. It lags behind other countries in a wide array of area's, sure, but in many instances it is better/superior then a lot of other places. If that seem's like typical American whatever to you, fine. Were also the corndog capital of the world and home of the world's largest dog casino, again, right there, sweet sweet superiority.

Or perhaps even the centre of the world?

Perhaps, no. I guess you figure your dealing with "the ugly American" here.
You seem to sterotype and lump all americans into one category, which is just plain sterotypical. Really, I don't look at America as the center of the world at all, I look at my local bar as the center of the world.

My post had nothing to do with being bitter about america's superiority it has everything to do with perspective.

I guess it's just how you come off. My mistake, you just seemed bitter about something or other, or like you had some kind of axe to grind or something. I think maybe it's a little more emotional then you give it credit, but what do I know.

What makes you think America is superior? because it has free speech??

Refer to above.

because you are american? ?

Eh? It's not because I'm proud of being an American or proud of my country or anything creepy like that. I'm not on both counts. I'm saying certain aspects of America are superior to certain aspects of other countries. That may come off as arrogant to you, but it's not about flag waving or anything like that. Again, I think freedom of speach, etc. is a big positive, and lack of that freedom is a big negative. A Woman's right to vote is one aspect of America that is superior to a country that lacks that right.

It seems anti-amercianism around the world is at an all time high, so I don't think its a view shared by the world.

Oh. Doesn't make it any less true. Again, I'm talking about specific aspects here. I'm not to big on a lot of the crap Americas been invloved in past to present myself.

Some of the USA's constitutional rights have arguabley resulted in very negative things, like the Virginia Tech shooting for example.

True. I didn't say I was against gun control, I personally don't have an opinion on it. I'm of the opinion to many opinions can be bad for the spirit.

Is the US army going to "liberate" Australia then? What about Singapore? China?

Umm, I doubt it? Though it would be kind of funny in a darkly absurd way. For the record, just in case you assumed you knew what I was all about, I don't think we should be in Iraq and think this new foriegn policy paradime of democracy at gunpoint is a huge {censored} up, if your at all curious. In fact most Americans are against the Iraq war at this point(took em long enough.) I agree that this "liberate" crap is despicable, a huge smoke screen, and have thought as much pretty much since the beginning.

If its not a case of justification, why bring in up on an internet forum simply because a thread got deleted?

I don't know, justification is such a dirty word to me, and to me it's more of a question of the poster's own conception of right and wrong. Though I can't speak for him, it seem's he passionatley believe's in freedom of speach, and when he saw that violated it pissed him off. Simple as that. Nothing wrong or ridiculous about that, in fact I think it's a good quality. He wasn't using it as a crutch for some bogus keyboard related thing or to justify being a creep. It had to do with a thread being locked because it dealt with a new study that showed THC may reduce tumours in pateints suffering from lung cancer as much as 60%, and he found that to be bullshyt. Perhaps he's one American who doesn't take freedom of speach so for granted and is willing to stand up for it however he can when he feel's it's threatened, in issues great and small. Or maybe he's just a whining whatever who should use free speach accordingly.

I think this forum is US based by the way, so that would make it more of a US issue. Not sure about that though.


It is certianly a post using free speech as an argument to try and justify an action (in this case, the thread that got deleted). If it wasn't used to argue his point, why did he ever mention it?

Hmmmm, I guess technically your right. I still don't see anything wrong with it though and can't get with the animosity that "seemed" connected to your use of the word. It "seemed" like a vauge insult, and still think it was a little out of line. Just one man's opinion.


That might me something if it came from someone who had exercised a broader perspective than just one consisting of what occurs within the USA.

Oh Jesus, please give it a rest. You and your broad perspective, I'm sorry but man oh man, after awhile... do you see how that could get irritating? It's like it's impossible to carry on a conversation with you because you immediately take the moral high ground and get hard at work utterly invalidating everybody else's opinion. It's just kind of obnoxious is all.


Where did you get the f*cked up thought that I was trying to make you feel ashamed of where you come from?

It comes off in your tone, believe it or not. I'm not saying it was some delibrate thing on your part, but I get sick of the guilt Americans are supposed to feel for being Americans, and I thought you were kind of going on about that, delibrate or not. So that's what that bull{censored} was about. If you weren't and my mind's playing tricks on me I apologize.


I simply said that the right to free speech is a privilege (which it is, because it doesn't apply to everyone on this planet) thus should be used accordingly (ie. not for stupid internet forum scwobbles like this thread).

Taste great, less filling. Anyways, I simply don't buy your whole "should be used accordingly" position. Is that okay? Anyhow, now for the twist ending...

Privilige-

- the principle or condition of enjoying special rights or immunities.

- a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most

When your right your right. I guess I'm more then a little paranoid with the way things have been going down in this country. I don't know if your aware, but in this counrty it has politicians have you used your same line, "it's not a right, it's a privilige." in thier campaigns of attack on freedom of speach and that's what I was thinking of, while you were thinking of situations in other countries as opposed to the US apparently. I guess there was some crossed wires here, but you basically see what my point/concern was here right? I think I see your's as far I can tell (took me long enough.)

Yeah, but in terms of the technical defintion, you were balls to the wall right you magnificent bastard, damn it, you were right.

Well, I'm glad that's over, now I can finally get some God damn sleep for cripes sake. My back hurts, my hands hurt, and my balls hurt, so time to call it a night. No hard feelings I hope. Your a sharp and astute guy I'll give you that, and you definitly made me look at a few thing's a bit more closely. So yeah, no hard feelings.





P.S. You stink. (joking!joking!hence the green smiley guy)

[ShakaCthulu]

I cannot believe that a thread which mentions and links to a story in the mainstream news (about marijuana and lung cancer) has been closed down. That is not PROMOTING illegal anything - sometimes it seems like the moderators here use any excuse they can dredge up.

 

 

It's not the mod's fault. Just another sad side effect of the War on (some) Drugs. The DEA and Drug Czars can use our tax money to consistently (and clumsily) outright LIE about marijuana. But independent scientific research? Forget about it.

 

I have to wonder why they seem to have made marijuana their number one priority. I would think meth would be of more concern. Oh right, marijuana is a "gateway" drug. Nevermind booze, the biggest gateway drug ever.

[Rabid]

Free speech is a right but posting here is a privilege. We are talking on someone else