Reverb sound question

[shadowshocker]

Hey,

I've been looking everywhere for a specific reverb sound, but I can't find anything like what I'm looking for. I want to get a reverb sound but I don't want it to sound like it's in a confined space. I have a Verbzilla, but every reverb sounds like it's in a hall, cave, etc. I just don't want it to sound like it's played in a confined space, more like outdoors maybe? I don't know exactly how to describe it but something less confined. I've tried software effects just to try and find the right sound but I still can't find anything. If anyone has any suggestions it would help a lot. I'm looking for an effects pedal (or combo of effects...) not necessarily software or anything.

 

Thanks

[Urinate Forever]

spring?

[MegaTom]

Err... by its very nature, reverb will sound like it's in a "confined space". If the sound isn't in a 'confined space' of some sort, then there's nothing to reflect the soundwaves to give you reverb.

 

But what I think you're looking for is something that sounds really big. Maybe? Most pedal form reverbs won't give you much more than spring, room, and hall settings. You need a reverb that will give you a canyon setting or something of the like... and I'm sure that there is some rack unit or software plugin that will give that to you. Perhaps a TC Electronic M-One or M-One XL?

 

Only problem is that once you go beyond your typical hall-type reverbs is that you start getting away the sound of reverb, and more towards delay.

[Urinate Forever]

i know when i scream down my street it echoes. but i dont really know if its "echo" as in guitar or "reverb"

[MegaTom]

Technically if you can distinguish the sound that's reverberating back at you, then it is an echo, or delay. If the reverberating sound is just a mish-mash of soundwaves, then it's reverb.

[Fender&EHX4ever]

Are you running your gear in stereo? Stereo reverb will help open up the sound more.

[UstadKhanAli]

Check out the Vermona Retroverb. You won't be sorry. It's an amazing reverb unit (spring), with otherworldly sounds that I think are what you are looking for.

[shadowshocker]

Urinate: I've tried spring, it's not really what I'm looking for.

MegaTom: I understand what you mean, which is why it's hard to describe what to call what I'm looking for. I know it's not exactly reverb, but it's the closest thing i can call it. I guess you can say I'm looking for something big. More like hearing things from a distance, yet not reverberation. Kind of like if you heard the noise but you were a distance away. I guess that would just basically turning mix to 100% wet instead, but I've tried things like this as well.

Fender: No I'm not running anything stereo. If I could I would, but I run everything through the computer right now, because I'm mostly just using synths and samplers and recording them. I actually have tried stereo a few times awhile back. I'll try that again and see if that helps.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[UstadKhanAli]

I know you just said that you don't like spring reverb, but give the Vermona RetroVerb a listen. Even if you don't buy it, it's seriously cool sounding. It's not quite what you just described - "hearing things from a distance" - but this thing doesn't really sound like a typical spring reverb, either. It can sound really odd or otherworldly, maybe not what you're looking for, but nonetheless insanely cool.

 

BTW, RealVerb makes a plug-in that can make things sound really distant without bathing the sound in reverb 100%. Maybe that's more of what you're looking for is to make something sound really distant?

[shadowshocker]

Ustad: I took a look at both, the Vermona Retroverb and the Realverb. The Retroverb was definitely cool, and I'm interested in it, but I don't think it would cover what I'm looking for now. Though I definitely will remember it for later use. The Realverb was pretty cool as well and you're right about the distance effect. Though I'm not sure if it will be enough of an effect for what I'm looking for. They had a few demos on their website showing the effects of hearing the sound further away, though it wasn't that big of effect to tell if it would be good for what I'm doing. I'll look around for a demo or something so I can try and test it out.

Is there anyway of using multiple effects to get what I'm looking for? I've been trying to use different types of delays and reverbs together, but I can't get anything that close.

Thanks again.

[AdamCh311]

I've heard the holier grail is not for normal type of reverb sounds, try one out. I can't tell you what that means, but it just what I was told when asking advice on looking for a reverb pedal.

[slight-return]

I guess you can say I'm looking for something big. More like hearing things from a distance, yet not reverberation. Kind of like if you heard the noise but you were a distance away.

 

 

hmmm

 

well, distant sounds can tend to have a fairly thin spectral profile (compared to near sounds) due to "proximity effect"

but that can make them sound small, as opposed to big

 

Q : does the sound you are thinking about have an 'echo component' ? (ie are you hearing reflected sound at all)

as mentioned above, unbounded space doesn't really have ANY reflected sound

[i'm sort of wondering...suspecting that you may be looking for...to put it poetically - "he rolling echos of a canyon" -esp as you mentioned "big" - but that's a total assumption]

 

One potential resource for help in defining what you want is audiodrama groups (there are a number of sites, troupes, a couple of mailing lists )as they are used to constructing specific sonic spaces

[MegaTom]

If you want to play with "distance" in sound, i.e. make a source sound nearer or farther away, you should probably focus more on volume and EQ levels, and then add reverb to that to suit your taste.

 

I would seek out someone that does sound for film and video to ask about some tricks of that nature.

[slight-return]

Dane Davis might be a good choice for film specific guys (he was kind enough to answer some sound uestions I had abt the original matrix movie, very very nice guy I thought) - though I think he's a pretty busy dude

I'd suggest asking someone specifically in audio like Yuri Rosofski, Meatball Fullton (of ZBS) as they, sometimes, can push things a litle further to suggest space w/o the "help" of a visual component

there are a number of audio troupes
(can't tell how current the list is, I suspect there will be some ded links as stuff changes in audiodrama a lot)

there are a couple of audiodrama Yahoo groups dedicated to audiodrama production which are failry active and you get responses quickly

[shadowshocker]

Adam: I was actually looking at all of the Holy Grail Pedals for a little while. I was actually gonna get one before I decided to get the Verbzilla. I'll have to try one out sometime if I get a chance. The demos I've heard are mostly hall and spring reverbs so i can't tell from them, but I heard you can combine settings reverbs on the Holiest Grail to get some really deep reverb sounds. I'll have to look around for some more clips.

 

Slight-return: I'm not really looking for an echo of the sound. For instance, I don't want to play something, than hear a reflection back. Kind of an 'immediate' effect is more of what I'm looking for.

 

MegaTom: I don't know if this is exactly what you mean, but I have tried using EQ settings as well. Though I haven't tried EQ with Reverb, so i will give that a shot. Do you mean, edit the EQ of the reverb, or the EQ of the sound, and then add reverb. I'll try both I guess.

 

I'll try the audiodrama group suggestions as well.

 

BTW, I can try finding a few audio clips of examples I've heard if it helps.

 

Thanks again

[XanaduNEX]

Boss RV-5 has a Modulation setting that when dialed in correctly can really give you a unique reverb. To me it sounds like what sound would sound like in space if you could hear sound in space

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Boss-RV5-Digital-Reverb-Effects-Pedal?sku=151303

They have a soundclip there that shows that setting but I don't think they dialed in it as heavy as I usually do. Still, you can hear where it's going as a start.

[Weatherbox]

If you want to play with "distance" in sound, i.e. make a source sound nearer or farther away, you should probably focus more on volume and EQ levels, and then add reverb to that to suit your taste. I would seek out someone that does sound for film and video to ask about some tricks of that nature.

 

 

+1

 

plus some sort of transient shaper.

[slight-return]

Slight-return: I'm not really looking for an echo of the sound. For instance, I don't want to play something, than hear a reflection back. Kind of an 'immediate' effect is more of what I'm looking for.

 

 

OK, that's helpful

 

what I'm wondering abt is you mention you wanted it to sound "big" where proximity effect (caused by a gradient of directional dispersion across frequencies) can tend to make distant sounds small (both in spectral terms and in terms of balance with ambient sound)

 

so I'm trying to get a handle on the "bigness" you are looking for

 

Interesting note : perhaps a visual art guy can help me out (I'm not particularly visual) -- there was a visual artist , I wan to to say 1960s...Centre Pompidou keeps an exhibit

that experimented with homogeneous blue (canvases, I think som spheres), etc

who was about "it gives a sense of lare-to-infinite space better than absolutes like black or white do"

Douglas Adams also brings this up in the planet forges of Magrathea

 

where actual unbounded things tend not to be perceived as "big" as there is little reference

 

I'm wondering if what you are keying on isn't a product of distance or unbounded space...but rather very very large space or maybe very large sounds (such as thunder) that we infrequently hear close

 

eh, just some thoughts...if you can pull some examples great, if not, maybe we can still find something to satisfy

 

I think we've just got a "problem definition" thing going here - so once we can get what we are trying to go for, we'll be a lot more able to...go for it!

[shadowshocker]

Now that I think of it, it's not necessarily "big" that I want, unless comparing it to other reverbs. Compared to other reverbs, it would be said to be big because I'm not looking for it to sound like it is in a confined space, which would mean it would be "infinite" like you are saying. And infinite space compared to other reverbs, definitely would be "bigger". If that helps at all. I'll try for the examples though.

[AdamCh311]

You know, I can understand where you are coming from. I like reverb, but I think a pedal won't do for what you are looking for. I think you just want real reverb. Check out some fender reverb units or something by TC electronics, they have won awards for their reverb programs.

[PowerKord]

Sounds like you need a full-on signal processor reverb. Check out the TC electronics G Force, or G Major (cheaper). They both have studio quality 24 bit reverb, for a big "open" sound, as well as tons of other fx.

[shadowshocker]

Here is an example of that "distance effect" I'm talking about. Problem is, there is also a hall reverb kind of sound on this, so I'm not really sure if it will be noticeable. But the sound is kind of "off in the distance" but with a hall reverb sound which is something I don't want. Let me know if this helps at all. I'm trying to find a better example.

 

Link

[shadowshocker]

Ok, well I've come to the conclusion that there's probably nothing out there that will give me exactly what I'm looking for, but I would still like something other than the Verbzilla of what I have now. I just want something with a huge deep sound. Maybe a few effects such as different settings; hall, room, etc. But mainly I just want something with a really deep reverb sound. I also want it to be able to go 100% wet. Idk if it's just the Verbzilla I have, but when I turn mine it goes more and more wet, than suddenly just goes to 100% in one shot. It's not smooth but rather like after a certain point just clicks into reverb. So, again I don't know if it's just something with my pedal, but I would like it to go smoothly into it if that's possible. And also I find the sound kind of 'metallic' sounding, so maybe something less metallic. I mostly am playing synths into it, and one problem I have with the Verb is it clips and distorts sometimes.

 

Thanks.