Why do you think you can HAGGLE for a better price? Can you do that for food?

[paganifuzz]

hagglin is human... actually its one of the few things left to make us feel human... its part of communication and is a social tool (Iam lacking a better word here! foreignerssss!
Imagine agreeing on evrything people tell you to!!!

[SpectralJulian]

Cornflakes are mass produced. Try and haggle a price on Cornflakes.

 

 

I could if I wanted to.

[SpectralJulian]

Back when I was in high school, the local music shop was managed by some dude named Donny. He was an aging rocker with long, died black hair and a picture of himself with Ace Frehley hanging on the wall behind the counter. Donnie never haggled, ever.... even when it was clear you were willing to buy something right then-and-there. He was kind of a dick. An actual conversation from back-in-the-day: ME (picking up a used $400 guitar): What would you say if I gave you $350 cash for this right now? DONNY: I would say you're $50 short. (awkward pause) ME: Really? C'mon man, I buy stuff here all the time. Can't you cut me a break? DONNY: Do you ask for a break on a can of soup at the grocery store? You get the point... Donny just oozed contempt for the customer. After a while, all the kids figured out the trick was to wait for the OWNER of the store to be there - an old guy who was a lifelong salesman and he knew how to wheel and deal. He made bargaining kind of fun. Even if he wouldn't budge on price, he might offer to throw in some strings or cables just to close you. Most of the time it worked.

 

 

See, it is completely in a businesses best interest to not ooze contempt for the customer.

 

People who know how to make a customer feel like they are getting treated well will always be the best salesman.

[rushtallica]

Now we have a situation that Guitar Center needs to make a profit. We aren't part of the "BIG GUY" anymore. We have owners that look at the checkbook. We want to make money--not friends. Go to your grocery store and try to get a discount. Ask your landlord for a discount. Ask your gas/electricty sullpier for a discout. Ask UNCLE SAM FOR A DISCOUNT. People, if you want a discount---go to a pawn shop. The real world doesn't "haggle" on prices. If I get someone asking if I match price I say NO. DO YOU WORK FOR FREE??????????????????? __________________

1) People need food. They don't need a store full of modeling equipment.
2) Many people will drive further for cheaper (or sometimes higher quaility) food and may not be loyal to any one particular grocery store.
3) How do you think Guitar Center got so big if they weren't making any profits previously?
4) I work for a huge company and am aware that companies will do everything to make extra $ over time, often enough at the expense of the quality of a product and chasing off many otherwise potential customers, though I realize in the case of GC they don't make an actual product. But those who have been loyal customers for many years will likely move on after a major change in corporate policy.
5) I'm not at all against Guitar Center on the whole, the haggling policy isn't a dealbreaker for me, and have no doubt it will continue to thrive even though I've been a bit turned off by a few experienes at the couple of stores I'm familiar with over time but occasionally still buy strings and pickups there.

[rushtallica]

There is always a lower price somewhere. If ya don't wanna haggle a bit on some things (not everything ever), then I ain't buying. Some things just have outrageous prices. People will pay it though. If they didn't maybe we would see things with crazy prices die down a bit. Probably not, but meh. It should be interesting when dealers start getting their Timmy's and Tim's in stock. I wonder if the used market will be forced to go down because of it?

 

 

Troof. It's hard to believe some prices I sometimes see things go for on ebay and at local pawns.

[slight-return]

Can you do that for food?

 

Kinda depends on the market situation

 

At a supermarket for prepackaged stuff that is highly controlled for portion, regularity, long shelf-life, and a staff that isn't authorized...the opporunties are limited (though not absent, esp for irregular goods, goods that aren't moving, etc)

 

at, say a fish or farmer's market where pieces are less regular, have limited shelf-life (and therefore les fungible) more so

 

with larger orders through perveyors, etc there is also some opportunity.

[3 Chord Rock]

Guitar Center helped create their own problem, that and internet sales.

Lets face it most musical gear is the same wherever you buy it from. Service is important but unless someone is really sub par it all comes down to price. Anyone remember before G.C. and internet when going to a music store was like shopping for jewelry, you knew there was a HUGE markup and the prices WERE list price, or really close, because they expected to deal down to a price that was fair for both. That fair price is now the regular price and is advertised as such, much like most retail stores of any product, yet we ask for more because that's the way it's always been done. Great for the consumer.

The reality is that the future of mom n pop music stores is the same as any other mom n pop business, they have to offer something a Walmart type of store can't. Which explains why boutique pedal and amp builders can still get a premium price, and will always have a market, while most purchasers are happy with more mass produced items and will surf the net for the cheapest price an click "buy"

[GCDEF]

Keep in mind that some stores, including music stores build some haggle room into their price. I'm betting that Mr. Claffman doesn't go into the car dealer and pay whatever's written on the sticker in the window.

I'll haggle on any big ticket item anywhere. It's part of the game. If a retailer won't come down, I'll go to the next one who will. If they give me a discount, I'll be back. Part of being a good businessman is making the customer feel they are special and important to you. Offering a reduced price is a good way to do it.

[SpectralJulian]

I think guitar center ending discounts is really going to help mom and pop stores.

 

Because now a mom and pop store can say, "hey GC is selling that for MAP? I can sell you that for 5 bucks less."

 

Haggling might be irritating, but if you're still making a profit, it is really in your advantage as a seller. If you cut a guy a good deal it leads to the possibility of them coming back and buying something else from you. Maybe when they make a big purchase. If I'm closing shop and I've sold 100 units for 10 dollars profit a piece, and some guy wants it for 5 bucks less or will walk out, I'd sell it to him. That's 5 more bucks.

 

Although I'm a person who picks up pennies.

[L6Sguy]

.............Shops get the gear at cost, and as long as they sell an item for more than cost, they make a profit......

 

 

dangerous, baffling, troubling, and ridiculous concept.

[SpectralJulian]

 

dangerous, baffling, troubling, and ridiculous concept.

 

 

Is that sarcasm? Or not? I can't tell.

 

What anti said is complete true. As long as you sell it above cost, you're making a profit.

 

Yes businesses have employees they have to use that profit to pay, they have overhead, bla bla bla bla

 

But the idea that getting a discount hurts that is complete BS. If you have to discount something to sell it, you are still making a profit, and ultimately upping your total sale volume, which helps you pay overhead and employees a lot more than only selling to people who don't try to haggle you.

 

Increased sales volume = increased profit as long as supply is no issue.

 

Sometimes it is even profitable to sell things at a loss. Look at Sheetz. Other gas stations got really pissed because Sheetz was purposefully taking a small loss on gas so that people would go in and buy MTOs. And it worked.

[Phil O'Keefe]

That's what is known as a loss-leader. You advertise or sell one thing at cost or at a loss in order to generate interest and traffic, and hopefully make up profits on add-on sales of other products that are not being sold at a loss.

[SpectralJulian]

Yeah.

Plus the profit margin on the stuff in the convenience store is 5 times more than that on Gasoline.

You don't have Sheetz out in the west, but it is really cool. They've got really good coffee and cappuccino inside and a whole mini subway thing going on, except it is a lot better than a subway and has burgers and fries as well as submarine sandwiches. And you pick out what you want on a computer so some negligent employee just has to look at your order on a printed piece of paper. You don't have to tell them while they are making it.

[L6Sguy]

Is that sarcasm? Or not? I can't tell. What anti said is complete true. As long as you sell it above cost, you're making a profit. ......

 

 

 

 

 

 

wrong. it means a transaction has been made.

 

 

if we open a store, we outfit it with gear, we light/heat/employee/advertise/etc. Anti purchases a dano mini at $1 over cost. then nobody else shows. ever. has business turned a profit?

 

if yes, then i take my sarcasm back.

 

if no, then we can deduce that selling an item above cost does not mean a profit has been made.

 

 

and none of this implies that i dont think folks should sometimes haggle, or whatever, just that i think a more realistic view is definitely in order.

[L6Sguy]

and also to be clear, the above post should be read in the Abe Vigoda voice, not the Manic Mechanic voice.

[Flying_Milkman]

wrong. it means a transaction has been made. if we open a store, we outfit it with gear, we light/heat/employee/advertise/etc. Anti purchases a dano mini at $1 over cost. then nobody else shows. ever. has business turned a profit? if yes, then i take my sarcasm back. if no, then we can deduce that selling an item above cost does not mean a profit has been made. and none of this implies that i dont think folks should sometimes haggle, or whatever, just that i think a more realistic view is definitely in order.

 

 

Good post, I'm a buyer for a medical store for a living. If I don't haggle pricing then we don't get a deal, and if they aren't willing to budge on their price then they potentially lose a customer. But that's business to business.

 

Business to customer is hardly different, if we don't appear to be appreciative of them and at least work a little deal then we potentially lose a customer as well.

[L6Sguy]

and even the haggling/appreciative pricing flexibility/etc thing can exist in a biz-customer relationship ---- but that doesnt by default put the customer in charge of negotiating whats what.

without thinking about it too much, really all that the customer can dictate is that they want to be appreciated (or to feel like they 'won' something, ie: ego massage).

[Flying_Milkman]

and even the haggling/appreciative pricing flexibility/etc thing can exist in a biz-customer relationship ---- but that doesnt by default put the customer in charge of negotiating whats what. without thinking about it too much, really all that the customer can dictate is that they want to be appreciated (or to feel like they 'won' something, ie: ego massage).

 

 

And that even on a $1000 item, $30 can be appreciated more than saying "No."

[L6Sguy]

definitely.





simple delivery of goods (ie: soda machine) doesnt, and shouldnt, by default yield 'discount.' a relationship could yield different things, but before that can be determined, one needs to be established.

last thing we need is everybody thinking they can negotiate a can of green beans at every single register, and every dano mini at every retailer (superstore or not). while some instances may allow for it, by definition, it doesnt have to.


while target and whatever may on occasion let it fly, its because they (the store) are, in essence, paying for that person to just leave the store.

[SpectralJulian]

wrong. it means a transaction has been made. if we open a store, we outfit it with gear, we light/heat/employee/advertise/etc. Anti purchases a dano mini at $1 over cost. then nobody else shows. ever. has business turned a profit? if yes, then i take my sarcasm back. if no, then we can deduce that selling an item above cost does not mean a profit has been made. and none of this implies that i dont think folks should sometimes haggle, or whatever, just that i think a more realistic view is definitely in order.

 

 

You made a profit on the dano mini but then had a huge loss on the cost of business. That isn't your fault for haggling, that is either your fault for not properly running a business or some unknown other event (maybe you've got your store open on the day of the super bowl, but hey, at least you made a sale)

 

Ultimately you are trying to acquire as much money in sales vs. cost of merchandise as possible.

 

If you make a dollar on something, that's a dollar closer to paying your heating bill, a dollar closer to paying your employees.

 

It's better than not making anything that day. If Anti refuses anymore than a dollar over your cost, then you're a dollar further away than you could have been.

 

Of course you have to sell more volume to make a living if you are turning a dollar every time you sell something. But that isn't the point. The point is that you make the sale. Better than not making the sale. Especially, especially, especially when you can always order more in.

 

Now if dano minis are completely discontinued, yes you'd make a profit on it, but that might be your last one and you can't order anymore. In that case, you've got the power. You might as well wait until someone comes in to buy it for more. Statistically, it should sell eventually. Of course if you gotta pay a bill that day, you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

Economics is a huge balancing act. Could you successfully run a business selling everything for a dollar over value? It would be pretty hard, you'd have to have a huge volume of sales. You'd also have to initially have the capital to be able to order enough units to keep up with the flow of volume.

 

It's all a balancing act. That's all economics is.

[SpectralJulian]

and even the haggling/appreciative pricing flexibility/etc thing can exist in a biz-customer relationship ---- but that doesnt by default put the customer in charge of negotiating whats what. without thinking about it too much, really all that the customer can dictate is that they want to be appreciated (or to feel like they 'won' something, ie: ego massage).

 

 

The customer has more power than that. They don't have to buy something. It isn't like they have to buy from you.

[spitfireme123]

If you think 35% is a low profit margin, try working in the restaurant business, where the average restaurant is LUCKY to bring in 7% profit.

[olejason]

I love to haggle but I'm never an asshole or unrealistic about it. I almost always buy used gear. Ebay dictates the price of everything used nowadays. If an amp sells for $750 on ebay and my store has it for $775 I'll ask them to do it for $775 out the door. I never feel like I'm raping them but I feel like I'm coming out better than if I had ordered something.

[AbbeSauniere]

Well, as a chef, I negotiate prices on food all the time. If my purveyors want my business, they need to stay competitive with other suppliers. So, yes, you can haggle for food.

[sdresdre]

If you think 35% is a low profit margin, try working in the restaurant business, where the average restaurant is LUCKY to bring in 7% profit.

i used to work in all kinds of restaurants. 7% i think your numbers are a little off. im very aware that 90% of new places fail but many that are 'successful' are making more than 7% dood.