Anyone use Reason?

[1150A]

Hey,

Anyone here use Reason at all? How would you say the sounds compare to others, the piano refill in paticular? Can it even compare to something like Ivory?

[malfunkt]

Using Reason 4 here.

 

I wrote some of this in another post:

 

"Reason 4: a bit pricey, but an excellent program. It is just a joy to use now.. improvements have been made in version 4 to speed up workflow. It is such a simple program to operate but is capable of some interesting automation and modular patching. With regards to synth presets, Reason is excellent here. I'm familiar with the Triton soundset, and Reason has it beat in most areas. Where it doesn't you can always import samples or get Refills later on. Managing samples and sounds is also going to be easier here than the Triton. The Triton still has more range of effects, but not the flexibility or quantity that Reason offers. Sequencing is also easier as well is automation..."

 

 

"...Depending on the style of music you are producing, Reason may be an excellent choice. I'd say for experimental electronic styles, drum n bass, techno, house, breaks, it is incredible. It also is pretty good for doing jazz, some rock, and piano (with the new Reason Piano refill)..."

 

"..The big thing with Reason is its not a DAW. It doesn't record audio tracks. Reason is a synthesizer/sample playback/with internal sequencer. It gets a bad rap for this limitation, compared to other similar apps like Fruity Loops which offer more. Still, it can be a very productive tool and is very stable due in part to its closed architecture."

 

Ultimately, I sum it up as a program that "just works". There is nothing instantly 'mind-melting' about it. But its when you get in that perfect groove and everything comes together that you begin to appreciate it.

 

I also own Logic Express 8 for Mac. An amazing program, but I am glad I have Reason too. Logic's strengths are many, too many to list here. Its built in synths are comparable and often superior to that of Reason's. In all versions of Logic you have Ultrabeat, which flat out destroys Reason in the electronic percussion department. However, Reason can do some amazing sampled percussion using Recycled grooves (hence my recommendation for drum n bass and breaks).

 

Thor - New in Reason 4. This is an incredible synth. I'm just starting to dig it. It combines the power of modeled analog, FM and wavetable synthesis and combines it with the awesome routing flexibility of Reason. This means you can be running audio into to it from other modules in Reason to control all sorts of parameters.

 

Reason's sequencer and automation - most parameters of synths are controllable or you are able to assign controls or modulation to them. After a while you feel as if the whole of Reason, is a big modular synthesizer, automated and responding to your input. The ability to easily link controls and automation from one module to another is the program's true strength.

 

Reason Piano Refill - Perhaps the best Refill available for Reason. These are superb,nuanced piano samples. The multi mic technique they employed help capture the organic character of the instrument. In turn this allows you to 'listen' intimately to the instrument and reproduce its sounds in both realistic and unnatural ways. I can't say I am that familiar with a real piano or Ivory. I am familiar with a recorded piano, and Reason Piano to my ears beats out the workstation pianos I've played on (Yamaha Motif ES, Triton, Trinity). The Reason Pianos I find are very suitable for classical, jazz, and experimental works. They need quite a bit of processing to be used for Pop, Dance, Trance, etc.. Before Reason 4, I found the Reason Piano Refill a bit of a paradox, as the earlier versions of the program were unsuitable for certain arrangement.

 

Weakness of Reason:

 

Rewire / no VST/AU support - you cannot 'Rewire' a 3rd party product into Reason. It would be great to feed in audio and control other apps using Reason. Also, as Reason does not support VST/AU instruments, being able to Rewire apps into it would provide expansion abilities.

 

No audio recording - one can find justification for this... but even if there was some form of RAM recording so that Reason became a REAL sampler. Built-in audio editor would be cool to. Also assignable 'resampling' ability. I know you can export wavs.. but maybe the workflow could be improved.

 

Subtractor - seems redundant now. I think they keep it around for compatibility with old songs made in previous versions.

 

No MIDI out - I know.. it isn't this kind of program. But why not?? Reason has so many cool abilities, I'd just love to sequence an external synth and then run its audio into Reason for processing. My 'fix'... no external synth sounds.. I use computer for all sounds now.

 

Some cool tricks - I remember when I used an M-Audio Firewire 410. I had it hooked up so that an AUX Bus in Reason would send to the 410 and bus through an external FX processor and through direct monitoring.

[r33k]

Agree that the Piano Refill is top notch. For 99USD, it is worth every penny.

[Meatball Fulton]

malfunkt's comments are pretty much dead on.

 

The things Reason can't do like record audio, output MIDI, support VSTs, etc. are why the program works so well with minimal CPU and memory requirements. There simply isn't as much overhead as in other DAW environments.

 

Reason does support MIDI input so when I use it I just slave it to my Motif's sequencer rather than the other way around.

 

As far as Subtractor (one of the three synths available in Reason 4) being redundant, why then does Reason have three sample players (Dr. Rex, NN-19 and NN-XT) and two reverbs? Part of it is compatibility but another reason (sorry) is that sometimes a simpler instrument is enough to do the job. Thor might sound better than Subtractor but it also uses more CPU resources.

[1150A]

Thanks for the replies guys. I've got a few more questions before I head out get everything.

 

What do you guys think of using it live? I'm on a Macbook Pro. Would you say it's reliable? How's the quality?

 

Also, I've been comparing the piano sounds from the "digital piano shootout" site, and I very much liked a sound from the Pro Mega 3 keyboard compared to the Reason Refill..

 

GEM :http://www.purgatorycreek.com/mp3/ProMega3Concert9'Grand.mp3

Reason : http://www.purgatorycreek.com/mp3/Reason%20Steinway%20Close.mp3

 

I'm not sure if this is the correct way of describing it, but the GEM sound isn't as bright or sharp sounding. Would I be able to get a similar sound with Reason and the Piano Refills?

 

Thanks again

[malfunkt]

 

I'm not sure if this is the correct way of describing it, but the GEM sound isn't as bright or sharp sounding. Would I be able to get a similar sound with Reason and the Piano Refills? Thanks again

 

 

Well, listening to the mp3 example you've provided, that is the close mic'd version of the Reason Refill Steinway. Other mic placements are available, including positioning that is a bit more 'relaxed'.

 

I'm certain you get pretty close using an equalizer in Reason.

 

Perhaps not the best example of what you may be after, but here a 3rd party developer used the Refill as a basis for some radically altered versions.

 

http://www.propellerheads.se/products/refills/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=rpi_exode

[ew_]

 

What do you guys think of using it live? I'm on a Macbook Pro. Would you say it's reliable? How's the quality?

 

I have never had a release version of Reason crash on me, and I've been using it since 1.0. 'nuff said...

 

ew

[Awake77]

Big Reason fan here...awesome program. If you need more capabilities, just rewire it in to your favorite DAW.

 

Realistically, you need a real powerhouse of a machine and a multiple monitor setup to make that an enjoyable workspace - but if you can set that up it's really, really cool.

 

A77

[orangefunk]

The things that let down Reason in the past was the sequencer workflow and the sound library.. but Reason 4 sequencer worflow looks awesome... perfect!

 

Did the sound library improve any since v3.0?

[-groovatious-]

Hey, OF - was it you who did that funky Brazilian tune in Reason?

 

If so, could you please post a link?

 

Cheers!

[rsadasiv]

I really like Reason Pianos. It's a little RAM heavy, but the sample quality makes it all worthwhile. And because you are playing it in a fully functional sampler, if you don't like the initial sounds/presets (which are pretty good) you have the capability to tweak the sounds until you do have something you like.

[1150A]

Sorry to bring this back up.

I've been going back and forth trying to choose what route to go.. hardware or software.. and for now, I'm just going to stick with what I have.

 

Though, I've been told it's much better to be running a faster HD. I have two computers I want to run reason with. A MBP w/ 5400 RPM drive, and a ibook G4 w/ 4200 RPM drive. So far I havent run to any problems with the MBP except when running Reason Pianos, I got pops and all kinds of stuff.. I'm not really sure why.

 

Should I be running an external HD? or upgrade the internal? Both computers have USB 2.0 and FW400, neither have FW800.

[Hoopaa]

 

Sorry to bring this back up. I've been going back and forth trying to choose what route to go.. hardware or software.. and for now, I'm just going to stick with what I have. Though, I've been told it's much better to be running a faster HD. I have two computers I want to run reason with. A MBP w/ 5400 RPM drive, and a ibook G4 w/ 4200 RPM drive. So far I havent run to any problems with the MBP except when running Reason Pianos, I got pops and all kinds of stuff.. I'm not really sure why. Should I be running an external HD? or upgrade the internal? Both computers have USB 2.0 and FW400, neither have FW800.

 

Pops could be a driver latency issue, or more likely the fact that those sounds are eating all your RAM and the system is trying to swap off the hard drive, which can be a losing proposition on a 5400 rpm drive.

 

You could either upgrade to a 7200rpm drive which might be expensive and add a bit of heat to your machine

or you could upgrade your RAM

of course before you open your wallet, make sure your driver is set up to proper latencies...

[malfunkt]

It shouldn't be the drive unless you are loading sounds while playing.

 

With Reason, the samples are loaded into RAM. Make sure you have at least 2GB of RAM for Reason when using the Pianos Refill.

 

Likely it is a buffer issue either with your external sound card or the internal Apple soundcard.

 

This can happen if your latency is set too low in Reason. While that will give you tighter timing, it will start degrading with processor overhead.

 

I used to use a MacBook Pro 2.0 Core Duo 2GB, 7200rpm drive, not even a hiccup with Reason.

 

You'd have to really push it to max the CPU in Reason.

 

I have a new MacBook Pro now.. with the 5400 rpm drive, which will take a bit longer to load samples.

 

With hard drives, it isn't just speed but size. A large 5400 drive that is barely full will perform better than a comparably smaller 7200 rpm drive whose memory has been maxed out.

 

There is a good test on Barefeats.com

 

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd7.html

http://www.barefeats.com/rosa05.html

[JnBroadbent]

I started to get a sour taste with reason 3 because of it's really horrible workflow. I then realized I could ReWire it into Cubase and just use the amazing MIDI editing of Cubase to control reason. To me, it's like have a big VST with almost endless capabilities. For weird modulations/automations or anything experimental I will bring an audio file into Ableton and do I what I need to there.

 

But if I had to choose two programs, Cubase and Reason would be the way to go.

 

I recently upgraded to Reason 4 and thor is quite the device.

[orangefunk]

 

Hey, OF - was it you who did that funky Brazilian tune in Reason? If so, could you please post a link? Cheers!

 

 

Sure

 

This was done in Reason 1 back in 2002

 

brazilian haze

 

this in Reason 2 circa 2003

 

Chill.mp3

[Hoopaa]

I recently upgraded to Reason 4 and thor is quite the device.

You're not of a fan of the workflow tweaks in Reason 4? I find that the sequencer is much, much improved.

[zoink]

Reason 4 looks to be a great program, and much improved over 3. I plan on upgrading as soon as I have time to give to it. I'm especially eager to get my virtual hands on Thor.

 

I originally bought Reason for portable use on my laptop (powerbook G4), but found that the CPU couldn't really handle more complex arrangements. I'm sure that when I finally break down and get a Macbook pro that'll improve. In the meantime, it has functioned well as a scratchboard when I get song ideas on the go. I've often thought I could have made Reason more of a major part of my own production process, though I haven't committed myself more to the idea since I have so much hardware and am used to doing things that way.

 

I would think that right now is a great time for someone just getting into music since you can do so much with something like Reason for a few hundred dollars. It really is amazing.

[SoundwaveLove]

I dig it. I'm still learning. New to computer music. Although I like it, its cooler then video games.

 

Thor is really cool, its mostly what I use. I can do a lot with it, even though I have no clue what I'm doing most the time.

[orangefunk]

I even though I have no clue what I'm doing most the time.

 

This is how music making is... at least for me... 22 years ago I bought a Juno 60 and I still have that "no clue" feeling... my fingers seem to fall on keys and melodies and chords come out...osmosis...

 

You can spend a lifetime learning Reason, thats the sign of a good instrument...

[OPEN OCEAN]

if i was starting out now it would be the way to go...

[JnBroadbent]

 

You're not of a fan of the workflow tweaks in Reason 4? I find that the sequencer is much, much improved.

 

 

I've had it for a mere week so I haven't even used it much. I've just been using it for it's devices to control via Cubase and rewire but in any case I'm much more comfortable using cubase.

[jrlaudio]

HI all,

 

I love Reason which I use for live performance in a Pink Floyd tribute band. I found that doing basic synthesis is a breeze in Reason and programming is very intuitive for folks like me who use alot of analog gear. I use this program to replicate Floyd album performances and give myself the ability to provide very high-fidelity additional keyboards in addition to what I am performing on vintage synths.

 

I use Reason for both sequencing and performance synths and Piano's. Below are two examples. The first is my "Welcome to the Machine" sequence which runs while I play an ARP String Ensemble and MiniMoog lead (not virtual ones, real ones). This recording is just the sequence, written & running in Reason, without the Moog and ARP. I do not even want to begin describing how many devices are running in this. Well over 25 I'm sure. I know the distant "machine noise" in the first minute is comprised of three or maybe four Subtractors. The only sample is of the door going "ka-thunk" and the crowd of people at the end. Everything else is synthesized in Reason.

 

I think this copy on twango is incomplete and an early rough mix. It's an MP3 (ack!) file so the fidelity is not what comes out of Reason during my performance, which is soooo much better.

 

 

Next is the backing sequencer track for "Comfortably Numb" with myself performing live some additional viola tracks. This was done using Reason as a Rewire device in Cubase SX. I perform the arpeggio's in the chorus and the piano part during the first lead break. You can also hear my hands slip off the key at the end. MMmmm ... egg roll! The orchestra is from the Orkestra disk using Combinator patches. The Piano is from the Piano Refill. Also on this track are Bass and Drum tracks (derived from two NN-19 Samplers), used for my private rehearsal and guides tracks for when I was writing the score into Midi in Cubase. During full performance with the band these tracks are obviously muted. Here's the track:

 

 

 

 

Since I used Cubase SX as a means to mix my vinatge keys with automation, as well as CC's being used to control CV parameters on vintage keys, I needed a virtual synth package that would let me build up large numbers of synths and samplers. All the while, this "Rack" must be performed live off a sequence both internal and external, maintain low CPU usage without glitches or faults, and deliver an output with 24/96kHz audio for high-fidelity. It also had to allow me to perform parts on a controller in real time as well. Reason was the perfect choice.

 

Obviously, with the power of Reason, especially when combined with Cubase as a ReWire device, I could perform the whole show with just my computer with Reason/Cubase and a controller or two. So why would I carry around an ARP SE-IV, a MiniMoog, a Hammond C3 w/Leslies, two EMS Synthi AKS's, and a Prophet 10 ... oh wait ... I forgot the Hohner D6 Clavinet, two different Rhodes (MKI & II), an E200 Wurly, and even a full Moog style modular synth .... opps ... I also forgot the M400 Mellotron. [Hmm is that it ... hmmm ... one, two, three, umm four ... um...five and ... yeah ... that's it].

 

Why carry all this? Darn good question! Hey ... it's a tribute band, and for the well educated Pink Floyd head seeing all those keyboards that Floyd used gives a real "oooHHH ahhhhh" factor thing going on for the hardcore fans. It's fun ... but very difficult to perform all the parts at once using pure vintage analog. A digital solution was necessary. Reason filled ALL the gaps so nicely.

 

John LeVasseur

 

http://www.myspace.com/jrlaudio

[RichardHK]

Hi John,

 

Just a quick belated thanks for your post here. Great to see Reason being used so well and fab to hear Pink Floyd recreations of course.

 

Well done. I am upgrading to v4 tomorrow and was looking through forums to read what folks were saying. Will make sure I get good use.

[Enigmatic]

Another Reason user here. It pawns my Yamaha Motif in terms of ease of use and sequencing. The only drawback is that it can take a while for large samples to load.

 

I even bought Motif ES samples and run in with NNXT. It's pretty darn impressive in terms of flexibility and ease of use.

 

But would it replace my Motif ES? Certainly not. I cant imagine using reason for live use. (But its getting close)