OT: Self-employment

[ElectricPuppy]

This is entirely OT, but since synths tend to attract tech geeks, I'll bet there's some here that can provide some insight.

 

I'm seriously considering leaving a long-time position to contribute on the development of a musical instrument. The problem is that the work will likely be contract-based as opposed to a salaried position.

 

From a practical standpoint, this is probably the worst idea ever. I make good money, with benefits, with people I've worked with for 17 years, and future prospects are starting to look bright. I would be giving this up to work on a relatively short-term project (less than a year) with no guarantee of future work.

 

On the other hand: The project is to develop the embedded system for a new musical instrument with a luminary in the business, who's said that while he can't guarantee anything, he has more ideas and there MAY be more to do after this one thing.

 

I'm totally torn.

 

I'm bored at my current job, which has started to feel more like a prison sentence now that we've been acquired by a large company. This is an opportunity to work on a something that personally interests me. I've wanted to build synthesizers since I was a pre-teen dabbling in electronics. Here's a chance for me to put life into an instrument that has real potential.

 

So: Stick with comfort and security, or chase a dream? If I decide to do this, here's the real question:

 

What can I expect as a self-employed software engineer? How is compensation usually arranged? Is it usually a billable-hours thing, or a flat price? I realize I will be responsible for my own witholdings, health insurance, etc. Can someone point me towards some info on how this works?

 

Thanks guys.

[pogo97]

Can your wife support you?

[ElectricPuppy]

No. She's a full-time student, graduating this May, and expects to be able to find a job similar to what she had before she quit last year sometime this summer, for about the same amount she made before. Unfortunately, we can't live on that salary, but we could coast for a while if necessary.

[Diametro]

Life only happens once ...

 

If you're addicted to material possessions and unsure about your future to the point of paralysis, you may want to continue to think this through ... (For example, do you own a home? Do you care if you're in danger of losing it?)

 

How stable is your relationship? Money troubles can often be a killer ...

 

Is there ANY chance you could return to your job? I quit the company I work now for about 5-6 years ago ... I've been back

[Son of HuHefner]

do you have a 6-9 month cash reserve covering all your house hold expenses ?

 

You are in California, right ?

 

Figure ' high'

[pogo97]

I'm of two minds.

 

One says: "No dress rehearsal, this is your life." and you should do what will satisfy you, money be damned. You only get one kick at the can.

 

The other says: I'm self employed but not a particularly good salesman (of myself) and it's a good thing my wife is a teacher (decent salary, drug plan, glasses, dental all that...) because, although I've had good years, I've had bad years, too. Never mind that no bank would even consider lending mortgage money to a self-employed interface designer.

[lerber3]

Approach it as a job change with a fun detour... take a chance on developing a music system with somebody cool If it doesn't work out you're a software developer with experience. If you can program your way out of a wet paper bag, there are lots of jobs.

 

Even if the music programming job doesn't work out, you will have acquired a new skill and you'll end up in a new and stimulating job. I don't know how many years of experience you have, but I had a rule over my first decade as software engineer (you're an EE, right?)... change jobs every 2 years until you have enough skillsets to get whatever job you want. ... and then you'll never worry about holding onto a crappy job again. Heck, in the company I ended up with, we often hired back good engineers at a huge premium after a few years of success at other companies.

 

If it does work out...

 

Good luck!

[idiotboy]

Without question, DO IT.

 

If you are bored with your current job, you not doing yourself or your employer any favors by staying. If you've been there seventeen years already, chances are you'll be able to return, should you want to, once the instrument thing finishes.

 

Regarding how to be self-employed, talk first with the synth luminary you'll be working with as to what the contractural procedures are (if any). If he has no specific requirements there, consult one of your fellow software developers at work, one of them probably knows how to get it done. Usually there's an agency nearby that you can work through, or can at least point you in the right direction.

 

DO NOT IGNORE OPPORTUNITIES WHEN THEY COME.

 

:poke:

 

[idiotboy]

Also...

 

All the "experts" say that the world is moving to a industrial model where everyone is a gun-for-hire. There won't be as many positions wheree you stay, working the same job for the same company.

 

So, position yourself towards that now.

[Yoozer]

 

From a practical standpoint, this is probably the worst idea ever. I make good money, with benefits, with people I've worked with for 17 years, and future prospects are starting to look bright. I would be giving this up to work on a relatively short-term project (less than a year) with no guarantee of future work.

 

 

Then, even how attractive it is, I wouldn't do it. Now, if you were around 24 or so, out of college and burning to prove yourself, then I would.

 

Unless you can arrange to work part-time like Diametro said. It's not hard for the luminary to hire someone else - means the sum of knowledge is spread, too, which means that things like bugfixes and OS updates can be handled better. It might be harder for you to get back.

 

How fast would they be able to fill up your chair if you left? Does it require intimate knowledge of all the companies' products? Are you lead architect/senior engineer, stuff like that?

[asynchro_nous]

Fortune favors the bold.

 

Your lucky numbers are: 64, 8, 30, 24, 17, 47

[TechEverlasting]

I've worked as a highly compensated full time employee, and I've been a free-lancer. There are strong advantages and disadvantages to both, you should just make sure you clearly understand them. Do you have any kids, or are you planning any? If so, and if you live in the USA you need to seriously consider the cost of health insurance. I can tell you that it's quite a shock when those big paychecks stop coming in while the bills continue, usually with some unexpected expenses.

 

Are you sure you can't just stay up all night and do the development work while continuing your other job? Ask for a leave of absence/sabbatical? Temporarily work part-time? You do need to make sure you wife understands and agrees to the risks you're taking. On the other hand if you don't have kids to support and don't require all the finer things in life there's no reason not to be adventurous.

[The Pro]

Since this is your first self-employment situation then the answer is no, purely based on your ability to cope with unemployment and gain new employment on your own. Plus your wife is not ready to take over financially in the event it's necessary. Also your debts (no need to list them) haven't been mentioned and people on comfy jobs tend to amass more than they should. If you are debt-free then it's easy to play with your options.

 

Work on this project part time and prepare to go solo when you are ready. Build independent business relationships that will guarantee your ability to sustain yourself. When you have your personal business foundation in place then pursue your dreams.

 

You knew that most people here would tell you to go for it. Sorry to be the voice of reason.

[ElectricPuppy]

Thanks a bunch, guys, I appreciate any and all opinions on this.

 

My wife and I have been married 20 years. No kids, nor will there ever be any. Friday we had dinner out and a long discussion over margaritas about this. She knows I've been bored, and is practically pushing me to do this herself.

 

We have no debts except for a relatively cheap mortage ($230K) on a relatively expensive house (prolly $850K at the peak of the market, now worth maybe $600 or so). Thanks to my grandpa, we now have the means to pay off the mortgage if we absolutely had to.

 

If at the end of this project there's no more work, I would say there's a reasonable chance that my company might hire me back. The catch is they have a policy of hring only degreed individuals. I have no degree, I am entirely self-taught. That might prevent me from returning there.

 

My father was a general contractor for 25 years, and he said what others have said here. It was feast or famine, and sometimes he really sweated it out. On the other hand, when it went well, it was extremely satisfying.

 

I'm almost 42, and starting to feel like, "is this all there is?" Perhaps this whole thing is nothing more than a manifestation of a mid-life crisis!

 

While there's a range of opinions here, the idea of possibly working part-time on one side or the other seems common. I've considered that, but I'm not 100% confident in my ability to switch my mind from one project to another. I tend to have a one-track mind and obsess over something until I resolve it. I'm afraid that if I tried to do both, then both would suffer. I'm still going to consider it, though. The prospective employer has a deadline to meet, though, so i don't know if he'd feel about that.

[bruto]

Here's a possible option: Take a sabbatical from work. Go back to school, teach, work for the UN, etc. Colleges have listings of sabbatical opportunities. See if your company will hold your job until you get back.

 

A friend of mine spent last year in Sumatra, Indonesia, working on a UN biological study project. He earned about half of what he made regularly but had his job when he returned.

[whitepapagold]

Only those with the balls to go after it, get what they want.

 

Funny, all this talk of what if "bad" results- and I know just being practical, but you don't break ground being practical.

 

No kids- only one answer- be a man and give yourself the chance to succeed. Worry about failure only IF it happens.

 

Think about your heros, icons, mentors etc. Comfort breeds just that- comfort.

[Son of HuHefner]

Thanks a bunch, guys, I appreciate any and all opinions on this. My wife and I have been married 20 years. No kids, nor will there ever be any. Friday we had dinner out and a long discussion over margaritas about this. She knows I've been bored, and is practically pushing me to do this herself. We have no debts except for a relatively cheap mortage ($230K) on a relatively expensive house (prolly $850K at the peak of the market, now worth maybe $600 or so). Thanks to my grandpa, we now have the means to pay off the mortgage if we absolutely had to. If at the end of this project there's no more work, I would say there's a reasonable chance that my company might hire me back. The catch is they have a policy of hring only degreed individuals. I have no degree, I am entirely self-taught. That might prevent me from returning there. My father was a general contractor for 25 years, and he said what others have said here. It was feast or famine, and sometimes he really sweated it out. On the other hand, when it went well, it was extremely satisfying. I'm almost 42, and starting to feel like, "is this all there is?" Perhaps this whole thing is nothing more than a manifestation of a mid-life crisis! While there's a range of opinions here, the idea of possibly working part-time on one side or the other seems common. I've considered that, but I'm not 100% confident in my ability to switch my mind from one project to another. I tend to have a one-track mind and obsess over something until I resolve it. I'm afraid that if I tried to do both, then both would suffer. I'm still going to consider it, though. The prospective employer has a deadline to meet, though, so i don't know if he'd feel about that.

 

yep, you are having a career mid life crisis

 

AND a Suzie Orman moment

 

I don't think you are focusing very well- asking a bunch of synth enthusiasts

about a financial decision is an absolute laugh

 

Fortunately, I am a finance guy and I see both sides

 

Get your wife to help you PLUS a finance person to help you sort this out

[ElectricPuppy]

My current company doesn't do sabbaticals, unfortunately. One employee I know already tried that in order to finish a degree, and was denied. (it was my wife, actually. Yes, same employer, different departments, though.)

 

I will do my best to leave that bridge intact, anyway.

[Allerian]

EP - I did self-employment for years and then have started two different companies to relative success. From what you've described, I would keep the day job and do it on the side. Quitting your perfectly good job to take a total flyer seems like a bad plan - the things you listed such as tax and insurance are the tip of the iceberg. If you're interested in particulars, don't be shy about IM or emailing.

[whitepapagold]

 

Fortunately, I am a finance guy and I see both sides Get your wife to help you PLUS a finance person to help you sort this out

 

 

Oh man come on! Finance guy, I bet your butt could split a penny! Its like insurance- you can live in what ifs or you can be alive. To anally caluculate risk of everything isn't based off being smart, its based off fear. The big "what if" something bad happens.

 

I believe if you have confidence in your ability to make money and do a job well, then you should act accordingly. Risk is HOW you make it- at least if you want to follow your dreams.

 

I was a title officer for YEARS before going full time as a programmer/engineer. Now I own my own studio and make better money- why, because I walked away and TRIED....

 

And Im just giving you a hard time as a finance guy- smart money moves is always a good thing but I don't look at failure as an option. If it doesn't work try a new angle. There is nothing better than getting paid to do something you would do for free and I do! It was worth the risk. And think about the kind of money I could make as a title officer in Orange County...

[ElectricPuppy]

I don't think you are focusing very well- asking a bunch of synth enthusiasts about a financial decision is an absolute laugh

You don't really think I'm using this forum as my SOLE source of advice on this, do you? I know where I am and what this is, so don't you worry about me. I just wanted to gather as many thoughts on this as I could, and this seemed like a good place to get a nice range of opinions (and it has been, thanks!)

[whitepapagold]

You don't really think I'm using this forum as my SOLE source of advice on this, do you? I know where I am and what this is, so don't you worry about me. I just wanted to gather as many thoughts on this as I could, and this seemed like a good place to get a nice range of opinions (and it has been, thanks!)

 

Funny! I always wonder why posters take the posts a little TOO seriously. We could all be 12 year old kids completely full of BS! As I claim to be a fulltime engineer/programmer, I could be sitting in the video rental store I work at laughing my ass off!

 

I love to mix it up on the net but its really just a bunch of anonymous malarky! ME INCLUDED! The only time I get normal is in PMs!

[ElectricPuppy]

Funny! I always wonder why posters take the posts a little TOO seriously. We could all be 12 year old kids completely full of BS! As I claim to be a fulltime engineer/programmer, I could be sitting in the video rental store I work at laughing my ass off! I love to mix it up on the net but its really just a bunch of anonymous malarky! ME INCLUDED! The only time I get normal is in PMs!

 

True, that. I'm actually a teenage fanboi fishing for a job with my self-proclaimed elite HAXXOR skills in BASIC. Why won't anyone hire me, yo??? I'm totally skilled!!

 

 

edit: Aw {censored}, I can't even keep from derailing my own Super-Serious thread!

[raffor]

I know a couple of people who tried self employment and all returned to salary position. It sounds so great but it is a very stressful situation when you need to look for business all the time. I only would go this route when my wife could support the family fully.

[sizzlemeister]

I'm self employed. Of course, my wife and I swapped roles - she works full-time with bennies and I stay home with the kids and work up my business. After two years we're near the point where she can go part-time and my business will cover health insurance. Next school year the youngest starts morning daily pre-school and, while I don't want the boys to grow up too fast, OTOH the extra time to work during the day can't come too soon.

 

It's A LOT of work - work, work, work all of the time. If you love what you do, and the simplest accomplishments in your work bring you pleasure/satisfaction, then it is wholly worthwhile.

 

BUT, I would have never ever started this had my wife not been able to pick up the slack. As with any start-up, you have to expect three years or so of working at it before you start to determine if it's going to work out. I know other self-employed folks who tell me it took five years of constantly working "at it" before business really started to cook.

 

If I were in your shoes, ElectricPuppy, I would keep the job AND try and do the free-lancing thing on the side. The amount of work to keep jobs coming in, and then doing those jobs, plus all of the administrative stuff, is about the same as working full time and doing stuff on the side at your leisure. Except, when you're self-employed, there is no such thing as "work at your leisure" - you are either working, or you're wasting time not doing your work. Get it?