Choose from four acoustic piano sounds

[Cygnus64]

Well one obvious problem would be that different piano patches have different velocities. In one piano, a speed of, say, 80, would be a mezzo-forte, in another it would be a forte. It could make the sound a lot different. I think I hear that in the Purgatory Creek mp3s - some pianos sound like they're being hammered on, but their forte and fortissimo speed just happen to come at higher velocity settings. But the midi is still the best way to compare digital pianos, nonetheless.

The real way to test them is having one pianist do the same piece on every machine.

[Megakazbek]

Nonetheless, it is the ONLY way to compare them.

 

I think it's the only way NOT to compare them.

There are some wonderful piano emulations which would sound like total crap with keybwizrd's MIDI file, because when he recorded that MIDI, he adapted to response of piano he recorded it with, but all pianos have different response to velocity, some of them need more pedaling, some need less, etc. There is simply no way one MIDI file would be suitable for showcasing every existing piano emulation. The same composition should be replayed each time with a different manner for each specific piano&reverb preset, if the goal is to provide fair and useable comparison.

[Cygnus64]

I think it's the only way NOT to compare them. There are some wonderful piano emulations which would sound like total crap with keybwizrd's MIDI file, because when he recorded that MIDI, he adapted to response of piano he recorded it with, but all pianos have different response to velocity, some of them need more pedaling, some need less, etc. There is simply no way one MIDI file would be suitable for showcasing every existing piano emulation. The same composition should be replayed each time with a different manner for each specific piano&reverb preset, if the goal is to provide fair and useable comparison.

All ya gotta do is find someone who will be willing to do that and has the resources.

[akliner]

I think it's the only way NOT to compare them. There are some wonderful piano emulations which would sound like total crap with keybwizrd's MIDI file, because when he recorded that MIDI, he adapted to response of piano he recorded it with, but all pianos have different response to velocity, some of them need more pedaling, some need less, etc. There is simply no way one MIDI file would be suitable for showcasing every existing piano emulation. The same composition should be replayed each time with a different manner for each specific piano&reverb preset, if the goal is to provide fair and useable comparison.

 

 

Again, I think this is wrong. I understand what you're saying, but as long as the MIDI file itself showcases a number of velocities, pedaling depths, open notes as well as tight chording, then you get a rough idea of how certain pianos voices will handle it. If playing was adjusted for each and every piano, there would be many more objectivity issues raised than alleviated.

 

The best scenario is that a contemporary piece (like the KeyboardWizard's composition), a classical piece, a rock piece, a jazz piece, a blues piece, a country piece (you get the idea) were all run through each.

 

The PowerGrand sample, for example, sounds amazing for contemporary music. It's bright and punchy. It also is very powerful sounding in Meatloaf, Billy Joel, Elton John kinda stuff. It would, however, ruin a blues riff or country riff.

[Khazul]

I understand what you are saying about folks adapting their playing style to the dynamics of the instrument they are playing, but its good enough I think.

From listening to the different recording its enough to tell me about velocity and key zone switching thats a bit dodgy, and whether I like the basic tone, sustain, ambience etc and actually be running the same midi file and not just human doing the same performance then it also tell me something else about them all and that is about the relative dynamics between the patches. I allready know yamaha motif es and roland xr dynamics, so i know what to expect from them in terms of dynamics differences between the instruments.

Then listening to the Kurzweil sounds tells me alot based upon that - the sum of which - actually for my taste they are probably my most preferred sounding rompler painos of all heard and I also think I will prefer thier dynamics to yamaha for eg.

I still want to hear a PC3x

[cl516]

i've had ivory for awhile, and though it sounds great,
i find myself using it less and less. always seems to sound the same.
been recording piano a lot more now.

but i'm re-looking at pianoteq again.
is it true it has a mono version?

anybody liking it more than the sample pianos particularly because of its playability?

(nothing new in this post i know, but it's on my mind nonetheless)

[pogo97]

 

i've had ivory for awhile, and though it sounds great, i find myself using it less and less. always seems to sound the same. been recording piano a lot more now. but i'm re-looking at pianoteq again. is it true it has a mono version? anybody liking it more than the sample pianos particularly because of its playability? (nothing new in this post i know, but it's on my mind nonetheless)

 

 

Yes, you can set the output to mono (with no phase problems). And yes, I like it particularly because of its responsiveness and because it's so very tweakable. Basically, where a sample piano might have three (or a few more?) samples from pp to ff, Pianoteq changes sound smoothly all the way through the velocity range. The 'strings' also interact with one another in ways that samples can't do.

 

You can download a trial version (a couple of notes disabled) for free--certainly worth a shot.

[dereksljuka]

Best - Akoustik Piano - the Steinway

 

I agree, NI Akoustik Piano's Steinway Concert Grand D sample library is incredibly awesome.

 

Last Place: PianoID "Physically modeled grands from Russia"

[Mediterranean]

5 presets from the Yamaha SY77 and 2 from BOSS Dr. Synth DS-330.

Raw patches. Didn't add nor remove any effects, etc.

The only thing I had to do was normalize the audio recordings in Wavelab [the synths are connected to the audio interface directly and the interface doesn't have input gains and the audio signal is therefore weak].

These machines are old [especially the SY77] so don't expect anything grandiose. The Boss pianos, however, sound a lot better in comparison [in my opinion]. After all, Boss = Roland

Question for Michael: did you tweak [raise] the velocity in the MIDI file?

[Mediterranean]

bis..

BOSS Dr. Synth DS-330

[keybdwizrd]

the velocity in the MIDI file?

 

 

No, although I do have a rather heavy-handed technique on the synths. Probably stems from too many years of playing acoustic pianos.

 

I used the keyboard on my Prophet '08 to record the MIDI file.

[Mediterranean]

Two presets from the Korg M1R.

I had to transpose the MIDI notes 1 octave higher. It sounded really "bad" with the MIDI file as is [it played 1 octave lower than normal it seemed]. The same thing happened with 2 of the Yamaha SY77 presets above [Rock Piano & 8ba Piano]. I have no idea why.

Like the other ones I recorded, I haven't changed any settings on the presets [effects, etc].

[Khazul]

Michael, out of interest, which paino where you actually playing when you recorded this?

Just interested in what you dynamic reference was

Funny you using the P-08 - Ive started using my TI quite alot for playing piano parts rather than the HD8 weighted keyboard - while I end up playing a little heavy, it does seem alot more consistent sounding with the variety of sound modules I use (Motif ER rack, Triton rack and Fantom XR). I never did like yamaha default volume dynamics that much - they seem way over the top.

[keybdwizrd]

Michael, out of interest, which paino where you actually playing when you recorded this? Just interested in what you dynamic reference was

Well, interestingly, it was #1, the German Grand in M5.

[Jez]

We might consider making this thread sticky; although if we did, I'd need someone to host my clips for the long run. Might be handy for folks in the market for piano sounds.

I'll do it unlimited space and bandwidth baby, yeaaahh

[mr_dp]

Here are some tracks of the midi through Reason Pianos

1) Steinway D (Patch: Producer Pianos/Niklas Flyct Large Grand)

2) Yamaha C7 (Patch: Producer Pianos/Chris Griffin Studio C)

3) Steinway K Upright (Patch: Producer Pianos/Flatpack Producer)

This is only one "interpretation" of how reason pianos sounds. For those who haven't used it, reason pianos is very customisable... i.e individual control and processing of every mic used in the sampling (room mics, floor, ribbon, jazz mics etc.). This one is using some presets from the "Producer Pianos" section of the refill.

Dan P.

[nat whilk II]

On computer speakers, what I hear is....(I'm responding to the first page of posts only at this point, so I don't know the outcome of all this yet)

I would guess that the original MIDI recording was using #1. 'Cause with your chops, you could probably make some of the others sound better with some pedaling and legato tweaks - playing to the sampled instrument specifically. The dynamics are much smoother on #1 and seem, at least to my ear, to probably be doing what your fingers are actually doing. The others all feel like the subtleties have been dumbed down and quantized to some extent.

When I say quantized I don't really mean to say I think you quantized the MIDI in your sequencer ('tho I guess you could have), but that the voice-stealing, release, and sample-layer shifting in the module itself has an effect that sounds like quantizing.

The two things I hear in piano samples that are the give-aways are clipped cutoffs (maybe that's poor voice-stealing) and weird phasing particularly in the mid to upper-mid range. Oh, add to that an occasional abrupt sample-layer shift that makes smooth volume changes impossible.

I heard by far the least of these things in #1. Very nice indeed.

#4 sounds like a bad imitation of early Elton John super-compressed/scooped piano.

#2 would go down ok in some mixes. A little plinky, but might cut through ok in a mix. Real church-midikeys-sounding to me. Pedal response is still nothing like #1 for smoothness. At the end you play a little three-note ascending flourish, right hand up high - the top note of that little flourish doesn't really sound like a piano - more like a little metallic something or other.

#3 is what I'd call honky sounding, mid-rangy. Some note cutoffs are abrupt at the end of flourishes. I'd almost think note duration was quantized to some extent, maybe to keep voice-stealing from silencing some notes.

#1, since we're guessing to show how smart we are, I think is one of the Ivory pianos. I'm probably not smart enough to get it right...

nat whilk ii

[Mike Conway]

Here's that Kurzweil PC3 file:

OK Gang, Here is the requested demo file played through one of many varied stock grand piano presets in the PC3. I simply selected one that seemed to complement this performance best: PC3-walthius_piano_demo Feel free to download and host along side the other clips if you prefer. email support (me) here .

[Mediterranean]

As promised, here are some piano patches from the Roland XV-5050 module. Like all other demos I posted, these are factory patches with their factory effects. Didn't tweak anything.

[Mediterranean]

continued..

The last one [PA009] isn't an acoustic piano but I included it as a bonus. It just sounded nice:)

[Dr.Innovation]

Personally I can't wait for the Tyros...

That piano sound seems to come from one of those $8,000 CP80's or whatever the name is? I played one at costco and it embodied the full realism Yamaha is known for.

[Dr.Innovation]

Here's that Kurzweil PC3 file:

 

 

Sounds about identical to the Kseries piano.

[Dr.Innovation]

As promised, here are some piano patches from the Roland XV-5050 module. Like all other demos I posted, these are factory patches with their factory effects. Didn't tweak anything.

 

 

What do you think of those patches?

[Mediterranean]

What do you think of those patches?

 

 

 

Hi Doc,

 

My favorite is the XV Grand [the "US046" preset]. I think it's the closest to the real thing on this synth rack.

 

I used it in a composition once. You can listen to it here. The song is called "Remote". I ended the song with a piano passage [XV Grand].

[Mediterranean]

Raw renditions. No patch tweaking, EQing, FXing, etc. All I did was "normalize" each recording.
192kbps MP3s.