Members kirs Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 Debating building a BMP from scratch or a kit. All of the kits I've found are transistor based but the BMP sound to me is Siamese Dream where Billy used a '77 op-amp version. Soliciting for opinions on op-amps vs transistors for getting that sound and what transistor version (triangle, ram's head, etc) would get me closest if I went with a kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OMTerria Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 Yeah, the Opamp/IC Muff is what you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blakemore Effects Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 Op-Amp gets a big from me. Mine nailed the Siamese Dream sound IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SnorkelMonkey Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 Question: When was it found out that they used an opamp version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lucid origami Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 Op-Amp gets a big from me. Mine nailed the Siamese Dream sound IMO. I seem to hear this all the time; got any clips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kirs Posted March 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 Question: When was it found out that they used an opamp version? http://www.kitrae.net/music/big_muff_op_amp_history.html#Version4 Came out about 2009 when pictures of the Muff came out and some excellent detective work by Kit Rae: Edit: Can't post the link to TGP for some reason but a great thread if you Google for: The "Siamese Dream" Big Muff Pi was not a triangle era muff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blakemore Effects Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 I seem to hear this all the time; got any clips? Yup. I'll post later when I get home. Also, to SnorkelMonkey, there was an article somewhere where Billy mentioned it's what he used. I'll try to find it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SnorkelMonkey Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 http://www.kitrae.net/music/big_muff_op_amp_history.html#Version4Came out about 2009 when pictures of the Muff came out and some excellent detective work by Kit Rae:Edit: Can't post the link to TGP for some reason but a great thread if you Google for:The "Siamese Dream" Big Muff Pi was not a triangle era muff! Yeah I saw that Corgan pic on that blog. Mine looked identical and was a late 70's BMP. Mine had 4 transistors in it, so I kinda wondering if people just look at those and think "oh, that must be an opamp version?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kirs Posted March 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 Yeah I saw that Corgan pic on that blog. Mine looked identical and was a late 70's BMP. Mine had 4 transistors in it, so I kinda wondering if people just look at those and think "oh, that must be an opamp version?". From the TGP thread: Here is how I made that deduction - Based on the graphics it is either a second edition V3 transistor Muff, or a V4 op-amp. Those are the only two Muffs with the exact V3 graphics AND "AC" printed on the top. The pots will be dated around 1977-1978, but they were produced within a year of each other. Pots on the second ed V3 are mounted L, upside down, R on the PCB. Pots on the V4 are all inline on the PCB, with zero starting at 7:00. I have seen enough of these to claim those are the facts. Based on Billy's claimed knob positions, it can only be a V4. As stated earlier, the V3 sustain setting cannot be placed in the position shown. The V4 can. Add the fact that those settings on the V4 give you the basic SD Muff tone and it all fits.Of course there is always a possibility that it is not an op-amp V4 Muff, and is a V3, but unlikely. Out of dozens of V3 and V4 Muffs, I have seen several with replacement pots, but those pots were always mounted on the PCB the same way the originals were because of where the pot trace leads face. Also, most of those with replacement pots did not have the original knobs, or had holes cracked out of the original knob tops. That's what happens when you stomp a foot hard enough to crack the pot post off. I have also seen V3, V4, and V5 Muffs that had guts swapped around, or were comped together by someone putting a complete Muff together from several broken ones. I bought a V4 and V6 from a guy who mixed the PCB's up when he put them back together after taking them apart to shoot his ebay photos. It does happen. But again, those scenarios are unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members placebo62 Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 Op-Amp gets a big from me. Mine nailed the Siamese Dream sound IMO. Yep, it sure does. I've owned a number of Big Muff variants over the years, but the op-amp BM is the one that gets you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shawnd2007 Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 if you decide not to make your own >> http://www.stompunderfoot.com/PUMPKIN_PI.html http://www.madebymike.co.uk/icmuff.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SnorkelMonkey Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 From the TGP thread: Hmm, Short of Billy Corgan opening up his original for a gut shot I wouldn't trust anything printed as to what exactly went into an EH effect on any given week during the 1970's. You'll notice that the time line in that link shows that both the 4 transistor model and the opamp model was being built at the same time. Why? I can take a guess and I bet I would be 100% on the money. Mike Matthews's company aka EH must have got a deal on opamps. My guess is they were buying them in quantity and using them in other effects. He asked his design crew to come up with an opamp based muff to use the surplus and save on having to buy transistors when he was running low on those. When the scale slides in the favor of using transistors or when he was low on opamps he switched back to transistors. So you basically have a dual run of BMP's one opamp one transistor based on what you have in stock. This was a time before the internet, digital cameras, and tone loons. If it sounded close that was good enough. You're telling me that Mike Matthews used a specific graphic or knob with a specific run of BMP? I find that very hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members houseofglass21 Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 I have a '78 opamp muff and it's awesome for Siamese Dream type fuzz. The opamp muff totally takes over your guitar tone and turns it into a huge wall of a fuzz. I have a Creamy Dreamer too and that one is equally good for Pumpkins stuff even though it's transistor based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blakemore Effects Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 I seem to hear this all the time; got any clips? Strat into my Star Nova playing TodayMy Telemaster playing random stuff into my AC4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 makes me excited, I have a few opamp PCBs to populate, should be fun. nice clips rhcp311 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kirs Posted March 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 makes me excited, I have a few opamp PCBs to populate, should be fun.nice clips rhcp311 Did you etch the PCBs yourself or buy them somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 meself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lucid origami Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 Strat into my Star Nova playing TodayMy Telemaster playing random stuff into my AC4 Do you find your Op-Amp is a bit noisy compared to other fuzzes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xautumnsashesx Posted March 11, 2011 Members Share Posted March 11, 2011 I think a ram's head or a clone will do you just fine. I had an original ram's head that I ran into a 6l6 50 watt Ampeg on the verge of break up amp, with a strat and single coils and it was pretty damn close to that tone. Especially for not have multiple studio overdubs with 100 watt Marshall loaded with KT88's. Any gainy muff should get you in the ball park. I would obsess over it need to be the OpAmp muff. I would think having a similarly set up amp and guitar would be more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted March 11, 2011 Members Share Posted March 11, 2011 soon my pretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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