Members aeon Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 I recently programmed a synth sound that could be described as a string ensemble. Not the sound of a string machine, but the sound of a group of strings - synthy of course. You might say it has the sound of a "strings" waveform in a ROMpler, but without the artifacts of too-short looping and/or dynamic compression such that it is smoothed-out and semi-lifeless. The synth patch makes use of PWM for animation within the timbre. For thickness and the ensemble tone, I layered detuned oscs together. This worked extremely well in achieving the sound I wanted, but presented a problem when sampling in that sometimes the osc phases would align and create a hot peak that would clip the A/D converter. I was not willing to compromise the overall sampling level of the sound to prevent A/D clipping, but I also did not want to use any compression or limiting on the source sound. My solution was simply to take 30-second-long samples such that I would get a long-enough sample region that was "clean," even if I did get a clipped peak somewhere during the sampling. This worked quite well - if I got a clip, it was never more than 1 over within the 30-second sample. I made a total of 21 samples from C1-C6, sampling every minor third, i.e., C - D# - F# - A, at 44.1KHz, 16-bits depth, in mono. Each raw sample was ~2.5MB. I looped the raw samples such that the loops were ~17 seconds in length, and 1.5MB in size. This resulted in a sample set that was ~32MB in size - perhaps a little larger. If so, not using the C6 sample would be the easiest solution for a 32MB sampler. After considering the results I began to think I could still achieve my original goal (ensemble string sound without obvious short-loop) with shorter loops, resulting in a more memory-efficient sample set. I went back to my original raw samples and re-looped them such that the loops were ~9-10 seconds in length, and ~800KB in size. This resulted in a sample set that was ~16MB in size - perhaps a little larger. If so, not using the C6 sample would be the easiest solution for a 16MB sampler. I had one issue to address before I was done with the samples, and that was the issue of levels compression. These samples are quite dynamic, with all the life and energy of the original oscillators. This sounds quite pleasing to me, but I also understand that it may not be the best choice when preparing a sampleset to be used in production. My thinking was to use a gentle compression such that their energy was maintained, but with the overall "lumpiness" somewhat tamed, resulting in a more consistent polyphonic sound. I did just that, and 21 samples later, I had what I considered a nice sampleset going that preserved my original timbral intent. I am pleased with the way the samples came out in the end. These samples are absolutely clickless and smooth-sustaining - if you sustain a note for more than 9-10 seconds, that is. Overall, these samples are fairly bright, at least in the high-end. This is purposeful, so there are options as it concerns later filtering in a sampler architecture, and/or EQ during mix and production. This may also be of benefit if they are used with a vocoder. Aside from the gentle compression, no effects processing was used in the creation of these samples. They are absolutely dry and raw. The files are named as such: nn_keynameoct.wav where nn is the MIDI note number for key assignment (36-96), keyname is C, D#, F#, or A, and oct is the octave of the sample (1-6). And yea, I am sharing them with you. Download them here: http://rapidshare.com/files/198978380/aeon_strings.zip You will need to assign these samples to a keymap and assign filter and amplitude envelopes so they properly play as "strings" would. Yea indeed, there is some programming work involved, minimal as it might be. That said, I hope you enjoy these samples and can put them to good use in your music. cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 Cool, man! But why bother when AlgoMusic StringSynth VST is free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Awake77 Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 Thanks Aeon! Downloading now... For the record, the sweetest synth strings I've heard were off the Korg Z1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted February 20, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 For the record, the sweetest synth strings I've heard were off the Korg Z1... Nice to know. I have heard from many people that the Z1 is capable of superlative strings of various tone colors. I've never had the pleasure of using one. cheers,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 This sounds like a perfect match for my Fusion, I hope I'll be able to download and work on them soon. I haven't used the sampler much yet - haven't done a patch from scratch using converted samples. I've been preferring to tweak the synth side of it.Am I right to assume they come from an analog synthesizer? Which one is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted February 20, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 Am I right to assume they come from an analog synthesizer? Which one is it? I'm not going to comment on the source. Let your ears be the judge - if it sounds good to you (or not) it is good (or not). I didn't want there to be bias as it concerns the use of this thing vs. that thing. cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dereksljuka Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 Would you care to comment with more detail on how you created the patch? Is it something more complex than 2 detuned PWM oscillators through a 12dB/oct LPF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members INKBLOTTER Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 Aeon,These samples are magnificent. Really, man, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 and because nobody's going to do this anyway otherwise: http://www.theheartcore.com/music/aeon_strings_demo.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted February 20, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 Thanks so very much Rob - it was and is a pleasure to hear it as arranged by you. cheers,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Hamburglar Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 Awesome, downloading now. Thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Hamburglar Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 Sounds excellent but I don't understand why there aren't all the notes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 Sounds excellent but I don't understand why there aren't all the notes... To reduce the sample set size perhaps, hm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted February 20, 2009 Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 Because most sounds can be transposed up/down a few semitones without losing much in the process of doing so. Also, to preserve memory usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted February 20, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2009 As has been mentioned, to reduce the size of the sampleset so users of semi-vintage hardware samplers can use it, and yea, because with this kind of sound, the timbre is not too compromised by sampling every minor-third. Heh, in the old days you were lucky to get fifths with this kind of synth sound! cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flat earth Posted February 21, 2009 Members Share Posted February 21, 2009 Listened to the link on Yoozers post. Absolutely beautiful. Actually came out in goosebumps The only other demo i heard that had similar effect was Clusterchords MKS-70 'Exodus' piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Irish Acts Posted February 21, 2009 Members Share Posted February 21, 2009 Thanks Aeon. For all you KORG M3 users, here's Aeon's sample completely looped and fully programmed into KORG M3 ready to load. Contains PCG file too. http://www.irishacts.com/misc/aeon.zip Here's a demo of the program sound included. http://www.irishacts.com/misc/aeon.mp3 Regards.Sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flat earth Posted February 21, 2009 Members Share Posted February 21, 2009 Very impressive Mr Irishacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aanalogaddict Posted February 21, 2009 Members Share Posted February 21, 2009 Thanks Aeon. For all you KORG M3 users, here's Aeon's sample completely looped and fully programmed into KORG M3 ready to load. Contains PCG file too. Wow, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted February 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 For all you KORG M3 users, here's Aeon's sample completely looped and fully programmed into KORG M3 ready to load. Contains PCG file too. I wonder why there is mention of it being "completely looped." The files were already looped - no additional or re-looping was necessary. Also, why is the IrishActs file 6.6MB, whereas the original library was 16MB? Does the M3 use some kind of lossless data compression? If samples have been trucated, re-looped, or otherwise altered, I'd rather not have it be distributed like this as it would not honor my original sound design intent. I have PM'd IrishActs about this, asking for info, but no reply has been given. wondering,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted February 22, 2009 Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 Listened to the link on Yoozers post. Absolutely beautiful. Actually came out in goosebumps I loaded up the samples in ShortCircuit. The great part is that you can select several of the samples in what ShortCircuit calls a "multi" - a collection of samples each with their own zone, filter and modulation information. I selected all samples and used SC's own notch filter with an LFO modulating it slowly - since the description made me assume "oh, string ensemble" I did that to give it the swirly effect. Very light EQing, one of Ableton's factory presets for EQ Eight, and an 8 second reverb (again from Ableton itself). Listening to the mp3 again I should've widened the stereo field, and I'm fairly sure resident classic connoiseur Cygnus64 could tell you where I shamelessly stole the first part of (I have no idea, I originally wanted to do something like Barber's Adagio) - the second part is borrowed from Ken Elhardt's (brilliant) "Lost At Sea" demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Irish Acts Posted February 22, 2009 Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hi Aeon I wonder why there is mention of it being "completely looped." The files were already looped - no additional or re-looping was necessary. Really ?.That's rather strange because I'm looking at the files in Extreme Sample Converter right now and they are telling me that they are not looped. That and considering your file sizes all more or less 780KB regardless of pitch, I assumed you didn't loop them. Sorry about that. I can see what you did at this point though. Just not sure what software you used and why the markers are not in the header. Also, why is the IrishActs file 6.6MB, whereas the original library was 16MB? Does the M3 use some kind of lossless data compression? Nope, I obviously looped the data because I thought you didn't. If samples have been trucated, re-looped, or otherwise altered, I'd rather not have it be distributed like this as it would not honor my original sound design intent. Fair enough, it's your sample data and I respect that so the files have been deleted. It's a crying shame though and I really wish you didn't want that. It did sound lovely on the M3 which I'm sure you would have heard from the mp3 I uploaded. I also did the work on the PCG because the likely hood of anyone else doing it is remote. Not everyone knows how to assign samples to multisamples and generate the PCG data. I have PM'd IrishActs about this, asking for info, but no reply has been given. Sorry but I don't get email notifications from HC. Kind RegardsSharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Irish Acts Posted February 22, 2009 Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hi Aeon. Would it be ok with you if I import the samples back in untouched and repost them in M3 format with my PCG. Kind Regards.Sharp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flat earth Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Aeon, in all due respect, i dont think Irish Acts did anything other than help premote your fantastic samples by doing what he did. His offer of converting them to PCG files can only be of benefit by making them easily accessable to alot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Would it be ok with you if I import the samples back in untouched and repost them in M3 format with my PCG. Most certainly yes, and I thank you for asking, and for the work you have done for Korg M3 users. cheers,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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