Members BerkleeBill Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Yes, I believe in Jesus Christ. But the Roman Catholic Church? What a farce! And the Bible as the "end all, be all?" Hardly relevant anymore For me, this long-on-the-Internet letter, purportedly sent to Dr. Laura Schlessinger, really highlights the flaws of the Bible as "The Word of God." ymmv...but still a good read! Dear Dr. Laura, Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them. a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die? i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. Your devoted disciple and adoring fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EugeneBr Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 maybe I'm an idiot, but... if Jesus Christ was not God, then he was a liar going around telling everyone not to lie and be good. This means he actually was a criminal (according to jewish laws) and was justly penalized by whipping and crusifixion. If he was not God, then he didn't resurrect, so this was the end of it. He gave up comfort and career, became an outlaw and died just to consciously lead people into delusion. What a fool. What foolishness even to read the teachings of such man, even more to believe them and follow them. sorry pals, it just doesn't make sense. One either believes the diety of Chirst AND his teachings or rejects both. If one has any brains, I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 It's just an observation... , however in almost every case where I've had a friend who was "saved" it was a result of self abuse, recovering addiction, a slew of bad decisions or being brought up in a strict fundementalist lifestyle. In all cases they claimed they needed the words of God to keep them on the right track of life. I will never pass judgment on to anyone who uses faith as a support system to free themselves of addiction or to use as a moral compass... I think any self imporvement is positive. I have just never felt the same need to embrace faith.... maybe because I haven't made the same mistakes in life. I've worked hard, put myself through college, I have a great career, fiancee and a great life. I've never dealt with obstacles like depression or addiction and I've always looked at my own responsibility in the decisions I've made. I never resisted my Catholic upbringing.... I just choose not to participate. Even though I try not to judge others who are guided through life by their faith, I still scratch my head and wonder where it really leads them. For instance an ex-girlfriend of mine, Juile, was "saved" many years before I met her. Prior to being saved, she had been married twice, had several affairs with married men, dealt drugs, worked as a stripper and recovered from cocaine addiction. She claimed that she was influenced in that lifestyle by Satan and that her introduction to her church (Methodist I think) and her love for Jesus showed her a path toward salvation. When we dated she was very open about her faith, although she didn't, outrightly tried to convert me.... she tried in little ways to pry me into her church (again.... I didn't resist, I just choose not to participate). We only dated for a few short weeks. I like to think it was over religious differences... she was religous and I'm not However thinking back I never heard her take personal responsibility for her actions, decisions that put her in those undesirable positions. It was always about God's chosen path. We remain friends for a few years until one time over dinner we had a heated conversation where she said she felt sorry for me... I wouldn't be allowed in heaven, because I didn't give myself to Jesus. I was a little uncomfortable... even taken aback. I asked her if she believed others from other faiths would suffer the same fate... Jews, Buddists, Muslims... she confirmed that she did. Quietly, I felt a little sorry for her. Last Spring I took the opportunity to reconnect with her after 5 years and her life hasn't changed much. She's pushing 40, living alone, more involved with her church than ever before, yet very lonely and a little depressed. She still doesn't seem capable of making decisions on her own. She says that God hasn't chosen the right partner for her yet, and when he does she'll "find" the right husband. She's been engaged twice in the last five years... in each case, the guy left. She's very attractive, a big heart but after all of her faith and teachings from her church it's abundantly clear she's using the same methods to base her decisions in life... in other words, she controls nothing and others control's everything. I've always considered myself agnostic. Athesism seems too abrasive toward my catholic upbringing (you can shed the church... but never the guilt ), however the more I reflect on people like Juile, and others experiences like Brian Welch from Korn, the more I'm begining to think maybe I am atheist and I'm just afraid to admit it. I believe in man's desire to believe in God... a creator, some vague answer to explain the universe and man's place in it. However the rational side of my brain won't allow me to accept anything other than the notion than it is just a desire to believe... not a requirement. I don't see myself better than Brian Welch or my ex-girlfriend Julie, or other friends that have recorrected their lpaths using faith as a guidence system. However I do acknowledge my responsibility and personal decision making in creating my own mistakes in life and leading myself down the path that I choosen. I know the difference between "right" and "wrong" and I am fully capable of living with the consequences which ever direction I take. That is not something I hear often from people who are "saved". It's why I imagine I never will accept religon as a component to my decision making process. Maybe I won't make it to heaven as Juile pointed out, despite my generosity and community service toward others. If that's the case, then I'm fine with it. I've made the decision to go down my chosen path, and I accept full resonsibility for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Knut E Evenmo Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by wheresgrant3 It's just an observation... , Very good and interesting post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlester Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by Pepi Did you ever wonder why nothing was said about Dinasours in the Bible? I mean they did exist? There was... -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Poor, poor literalists. Taking myth as fact. I see we still have some. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by caseykey118 Every person who has ever sent themselves on a quest to prove that jesus christ wasn't a living god became a christian....... there is just scientifically more evidence and so many sitings/witnesses that even if we try to talk "logically" about it you just can't turn it down. I read a statistic of something like if you were thrown out of a plane with a blindfold on over texas with quarters up to your knees......... there would be one painted quarter and that would be the probablility that all the prophets and forseers of jesus christ did what they did at that specific time by consiquence. obviously im a christian just to add. Every person who has ever...absolute caca. Scientific evidence???hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Post some, please! God forbid I do anything anywhere near Texas. Scientific...hahahaaaa!! Thanks literalist, tell me more about this 'logic' Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlester Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by wheresgrant3 It's just an observation... , however in almost every case where I've had a friend who was "saved" it was a result of self abuse, recovering addiction, a slew of bad decisions or being brought up in a strict fundementalist lifestyle. In all cases they claimed they needed the words of God to keep them on the right track of life. Not me at all... No drugs, I didn't drink, I didn't knock up a bunch of girls... nothing. I was in 5th grade. I had been going to Church... not because I really wanted to, but because my family was going. I was ready my Bible and it just made since to me. Just like someone else said above... Go and try to disprove the Bible. Major figures who have, including Darwin, became a beliver (saved) after this test. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catch 33 Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by wheresgrant3 thinking back I never heard her take personal responsibility for her actions, decisions that put her in those undesirable positions. It was always about God's chosen path. maybe people are first drawn to christianity because it gives them a way to shift the blame off their own shouldersultimately, though, we must take responsibility for our actions because we've chosen to reject God hopefully, people like this will read their bibles and realise that you can choose to turn back to God He will forgive your past sins if you ask him because Jesus died on the cross , taking the burden of our sin allowing us into a personal relationship with our creator, so theres no need for someone like the pope to be gods representative on earth, and no need to be praying to saints, because you can talk directly to god its in the bible - dont listen to people trying to add their own spin to it that said, i dont believe the bible is all a factual account of human history - in the adam and eve story, theres a talking snake - snakes obviously dont talk...i think its just a story to show how humanity went off the rails because of satan...i dont know about the rest of the old testament, but i think all the new testament is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catch 33 Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by tlester Not me at all... No drugs, I didn't drink, I didn't knock up a bunch of girls... nothing. I was in 5th grade. I had been going to Church... not because I really wanted to, but because my family was going. I was ready my Bible and it just made since to me. Just like someone else said above... Go and try to disprove the Bible. Major figures who have, including Darwin, became a beliver (saved) after this test. -Tom sounds like me ive been interested in the scientiific evidence of bible stories since year 7 i read about plagues in my history text book the - in egyptian history plagues like the plagues god sends when the pharaoh refuses to let moses et all leave egypt are recorded the more i casually (emphasise 'casually') research the more my faith is strenghthened.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Believing in God has nothing to do with believing the Bible, kids. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlester Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 yep.... that's what got me reading deeper. And still to this day I find stuff all the time. Especially when you start putting the georphay from the Bible to todays geography. You begin to realize that the termoil that was talked about in the Bible is still happening in the same places today. Then theres the scientific evidence that keeps popping up. Like that we all have DNA that spawns from a single female. As for the statement above about not taking ownership of your actions. The Bible is all about taking ownership of our actions. That's precisely why Jeus had to come and die for our sins. WE ARE ROYAL SCREW UPS! We have free will to screw up and we do... often. We are the only one to blame for that. God, however, is perfect. He cannot accept sin into his presence. That's why Jesus was crucified. He died for our sins. He now "vouches" for us in front of the Father (God). It's kind of like a bouncer at a club. If you just show up uninvited, you'll be turned away. However.... if you show up with the owner's son and he says, "It's cool.... he's with me". You'll get in. That's what a relationship with Jesus Christ is about. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 It's kind of like a bouncer at a club. If you just show up uninvited, you'll be turned away. However.... if you show up with the owner's son and he says, "It's cool.... he's with me". You'll get in. That's what a relationship with Jesus Christ is about. hahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Watch out for that bouncer!! haha!! Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlester Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by chuckgp Believing in God has nothing to do with believing the Bible, kids.Chuck You are kind of right. You can beleive in God without beleiving the Bible. But, the Bible is the word of God. It's how he communicates with us. So, you can't really have a relationship with God without beleiving the Bible. It's his words to us... how He communicates to us. Just like you can't have a meaningful relationship with a person withought getting to know that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by tlester You are kind of right. You can beleive in God without beleiving the Bible. But, the Bible is the word of God. It's how he communicates with us. So, you can't really have a relationship with God without beleiving the Bible. It's his words to us... how He communicates to us. Just like you can't have a meaningful relationship with a person withought getting to know that person. God is not words, not in books, but within us. Look within. The only reason to read a book to know God is because you are deaf to the Christ within you. I'm sorry. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Les-Zombie Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 i belive in jesus,god and the holy spirit. and i believe all that the bible has to say. if you dont then thats your choice to make. i am a christian and in not ashamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by zao i belive in jesus,god and the holy spirit. and i believe all that the bible has to say. if you dont then thats your choice to make. i am a christian and in not ashamed. My condolences. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 So much for all this 'undeniable scientific proof' Same bull{censored} as it ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BerkleeBill Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by chuckgp Same bull{censored} as it ever was. Insert David Byrne arm thingie here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by BerkleeBill Insert David Byrne arm thingie here! chop, chop, chop:D 'everything is changing into something elsenothing is wrong, nothing is wrongeverything is on track-ack-ack-ack-ack'-Terrence McKenna, RIP(oops sorry...new Shpongle!)I love scientific facts, too bad we don't have any here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Are you Shpongled? When shall I be free? When I shall cease to be. No more 'I', but we, in perfect harmony Gnostic muthas. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AmpliFIRE Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Another great thread by MYK Please take this {censored} to OPEN JAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by AmpliFIRE Another great thread by MYK Please take this {censored} to OPEN JAM. No worry my LP buddy!As usual the spineless grow silent as jellythe thread dies the true death.McNaught, eh? Got any for sale??Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AmpliFIRE Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Originally posted by chuckgp No worry my LP buddy! As usual the spineless grow silent as jelly the thread dies the true death. McNaught, eh? Got any for sale?? Chuck LOL...NEVER!!!!!! I'm not sure if you saw mine, but here's a pic to wet your appetite: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuckgp Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 VERY nice!! Maybe that swap for my Hotplate will work??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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