Members pink floyd cramer Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 I have only done a few band gigs where I had to play keyboard bass, although I have worked on it at home a fair bit (with boogie woogie stuff as a starting point). I love how Larry Goldings and Sam Yahel do it, but I'll just be covering bass parts on generic cover band songs. I know that having good time and working with a click is very important, also locking in with the kick drum. I have not paid enough attention to bass lines in the past so I am doing that now, too. RealMC and others, help me out here please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 You're on the right path. The boogie woogie will help train hand independence, ragtime and stride will do that too. That will go a long way to make that left hand go on autopilot. Important thing about imitating bass players is to listen to the real thing intimately - not just notes but phrasing, articulation. When you get there, it's a coveted skill that not many musicians have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 Drag just a bit, never rush, and pay much more attention to your left hand playing than your right hand. The bass has to be there. The keys not so much most of the time. Been playing left hand bass in a praise band recently which is different than clubs and generally much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnHKart Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 Get the tempos and write them down. Then input the tempos into a drum machine or a metronome and practice with it. Don't try to play the bass lines on a weighted keybed unless you are some kind of tough guy that can pull that off without hand fatigue. Non weighted keys makes the workload a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 On the contrary - playing on a weighted keyboard builds your endurance. Trust me you're going to need endurance on a four hour gig. The best athletes are the ones who built their endurance. No shortcuts on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mate_stubb Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 Needless to say, play the bass line live thru a separate amp/DI/PA channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 I have only done a few band gigs where I had to play keyboard bass, although I have worked on it at home a fair bit (with boogie woogie stuff as a starting point). I love how Larry Goldings and Sam Yahel do it, but I'll just be covering bass parts on generic cover band songs. I know that having good time and working with a click is very important, also locking in with the kick drum. I have not paid enough attention to bass lines in the past so I am doing that now, too. RealMC and others, help me out here please! What songs? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pink floyd cramer Posted April 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 Drag just a bit, never rush, and pay much more attention to your left hand playing than your right hand. The bass has to be there. The keys not so much most of the time. Been playing left hand bass in a praise band recently which is different than clubs and generally much easier. ouch. I'm not good at dragging- my main goal is to avoid rushing everything and as you said, not to have the bass go to {censored} when I solo. Songs range from CCR, Elvis (Trilogy and A Little Less Conversation), Little Feet (Let it Roll) and selections from "Phantom" and Andrea Bocelli. I have really stepped in it this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goldphinga Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 Drag just a bit, never rush, and pay much more attention to your left hand playing than your right hand. The bass has to be there. The keys not so much most of the time. Been playing left hand bass in a praise band recently which is different than clubs and generally much easier. Yep dont rush but i do the opposite DONT think about the left, let it do its thing..concentrate on the right and the bass will follow..my experience anyway:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tuba Four Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 I play LHB in an instrumental Jazz/Funk Trio (we're just starting). When I sit down to play by myself, I am always playing LHB. So, it's part of my playing style. When we had a bass player, I had to consciously play chords with my left hand or do something else. If this is not your solo playing style then you have to be comfortable enough with the LHB lines before you do anything else. For me at least, I have to make sure I can play the bass lines cleanly and in time before I worry about soloing over those lines. Even then, I have to make sure I can pull off the solo reasonably well in light of the bass line. If the bass line breaks down, the whole song is going to pot!! So, my point is that you should work on the bass lines first, your right hand comping second and soloing last. You might want to pass up a solo or two if you're not comfortable yet with the particular tune to solo over the LHB lines. aL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 This is my go-to book for coming up with bass lines: When I was the bassist in my last band, I was using the principles of this book to come up with my parts. Despite the "Walking" in the title, the principles of the book can be applied to rock just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bandard Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 I do a lot of walking bass lines. IMO, bass is the most important part of the song. Many times I won't even play right hand, or just accents, because the bass is so much more important. I listen to a lot of bass. I'm actually teaching myself to play bass guitar right now. Practice playing bass only with songs. Forget the right hand if you really want to know how to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darkstorm Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 Paying attention to the groove, so when you do fancier stuff its still with the groove. Dont try to emulate a bass guitar, instead do dynth bass lines that have charector and finger nuances based on how you trigger the keys, and work pitch bend and any other effects. Jon Lord of Deep Purple while not playing bass keys as such is great example of grooving keyboardist from which you might draw for bass key synth stuff in the rock genres. Useing arp patterns, understanding power chords and how any of the notes in that can be used for bass patterns, and just being aware of bass synth in trance music as well can be great forn useing synth for bass things imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dumeril7 Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 ouch. I'm not good at dragging- my main goal is to avoid rushing everything and as you said, not to have the bass go to {censored} when I solo. Songs range from CCR, Elvis (Trilogy and A Little Less Conversation), Little Feet (Let it Roll) and selections from "Phantom" and Andrea Bocelli. I have really stepped in it this time. Bass is like any other rhythm section instrument -- sometimes you push the beat, sometimes you pull it, sometimes you play right in the pocket. Listen to the originals to determine which way to go. The important thing, IMO, is that your groove is consistent, appropriate and completely authoritative. You gotta own it. D7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 The book that I posted is not really a "how to play bass guitar" book. It is a book on how to create your own bass lines, and can be applied to any instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pink floyd cramer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 It seems to be fairly common for bass players (good musicians with good time) to play behind the beat on every song. Sometimes when I have played key bass, the drummer has enjoyed not being held back when they wanted to play more on the beat. I have played with a few bass players who could adapt their feel from song to song, but they are rare. I do ok playing behind the beat on blues or honky tonk piano but this LH bass thing is a different matter. I have 2 weeks to get my {censored} together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 Actually pfc I don't have the best of timing. I tend to rush when I'm playing leads. But dragging bass lines - it's not that hard if you're aware of doing it, because the actual lines are not that complicated and usually confined to only an octave and a fourth. It's only been touched on by Mate, but it's so important to get proper amplification, which to me means (because my role is almost always to cover a bass guitar) running through a real bass guitar amp. The notes just flow so much easier if you're sounding good. There's really not much stride or walk when playing LH bass unless you're in some kind of pure blues thing. Just keep it real simple and you'll be fine. Just like drums. The simpler the better. Don't sweat this because it's easy. Just play mostly balloons on top until you get into the groove with your left hand. You are now a bass player first! Oh yeah - and keys in there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dumeril7 Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 Maybe you guys are talking about particular styles of music, but dragging the beat on bass is not universally a good thing for all music. Straight-up, up-tempo rock, for instance is usually right in the pocket. D7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 It really depends on the style and personality of the drummer. But most prefer the bass to be just a hair behind them no matter what the music style. This observation comes from over 25 years of playing key bass off and on. And it only applies to live performance - not recording situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dumeril7 Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 Well, if we want to talk credentials, I've got 28 years of playing bass guitar, touring and recording. But really, just listen to the original recordings; they'll tell you everything you need to know about how a song should be approached. IMO its suboptimal to make the feel dependent on the drummer or to take a one-size-fits-all approach to pocket. It should be dependent on the song and be a function of style, tempo and the desired feel to make the song groove right. Dragging the tempo makes the song feel laid-back, which is not necessarily the right feel for a given song. D7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 OK I get you. But to be a little more precise about my own approach, I'm not talking about dragging as much as playing just a hair behind the kick. Done that way it doesn't feel like you're trying to pull the tempo back. And you're right it's not a good thing all the time. Certainly not on ballads for example. And I've worked with drummers who had such solid meter that I wouldn't do nearly as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 i just thought i'd chime in and point out that organ jazz bass is almost always right on top the beat. no pushing, no dragging. all the pushing and dragging the organist does is with his right hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChromaLord Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 Keep your tone simple!!! Dont stack a lot of sounds or detune oscillators. your goal is to supply bottom end, root structure to the chord, with a round bass tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted April 3, 2009 Members Share Posted April 3, 2009 I have only done a few band gigs where I had to play keyboard bass, although I have worked on it at home a fair bit (with boogie woogie stuff as a starting point). I love how Larry Goldings and Sam Yahel do it, but I'll just be covering bass parts on generic cover band songs. I know that having good time and working with a click is very important, also locking in with the kick drum. I have not paid enough attention to bass lines in the past so I am doing that now, too. RealMC and others, help me out here please! LHB is a real PIA... I can do it & have been given thumbs up by many a drummer for my basslines - though luckily most of the time I don't have to do it. Years back I did it all the time, when wedding/banquet bands didn't typically have bass players or chick singers, for that matter - luckily they almost always have both now. I did a banquet dinner dance gig a couple months back where it was just keys (me), guitar and drums. I sang about 65% of the leads, played LHB, ran the PA and called the tunes (it was my gig). I was exhausted as sh*t by the end of the night but we got a ton of compliments - the principal at one of the schools in my district had been appointed Superintendent after several tries and over 20 yrs. in district and his school's staff funded this party... so it was a bunch of work friends, I knew almost everyone there - what a great kick to play for a room full of folks you know. Anyway - playing LHB is damn hard, when trying to also sing and comp the right chords in right hand. If you don't sing it's not quite as draining but still hard... I just find it limiting to have to play lh bass all night though - soloing one-handed is just not as much fun, at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted April 3, 2009 Members Share Posted April 3, 2009 I just find it limiting to have to play lh bass all night though - soloing one-handed is just not as much fun, at least for me. that's funny. when i'm playing organ, i can't solo worth a {censored} unless i'm playing bass too. there was a time here when i was playing gigs that i was told by people (usually thumb-slapping dickheads) that i needed "a bass player" (not noticing the whole i am a bass player thing). often they would justify this by claiming that leaving the whole low end thing to someone else would let me "play more" or "do more", which i always found an insulting knock on my soloing. another time, i was playing a gig and this guy says to me on break while i'm waiting for a drink "hey you guys would sound pretty good if you had a real bass player." i said "hey we have a bass player, would you like to shake his hand?" and extended my left hand. this guy, i should mention, turned out not to be the enormous dick that i thought he was upon meeting him but a terrible bass player who can't keep time or recognise when he needs to tune his instrument. when i'm playing synthesisers, it's different because i can use my left hand for modulation controls or operating other synths or sequencers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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