Members SteveVHT Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps While we are on the subject, theres a reason why Wing Chunpractitioners are not allowed in competitions. Exactly....Too many people are too busy watching UFC fights....LOLIn the original UFC, before it was televised, a Wing Chun/Kung Fu expert from China killed a man in the ring with the first blow. And he was about 1/4 the size of his opponent.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by AcidRock23 I am kind of inclined to agree that a fight is a fight and Martial Arts classes are not the same as back alley/ bar room brawling HOWEVER, I also think that the confidence and discipline that one can learn studying any martial art can't hurt and that whatever art you choose to study WILL make you stronger and better able to 'manage' any sort of conflict situation in which you find yourself, if you study it seriously and discipline yourself to make yourself stronger. I agree 1000000000000000000%That is the difference between martial arts classes and real life training that the sever styles teach. There are no pads, gloves, etc....It's all about training the body to never feel pain.More of that Mystical BS that people doubt....LOLBut if you ever see a true Kung Fu fighter, you will not think it's mystical...Basic mind over matter that takes a lifetime of abuse to develope.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by joeinkc2 another point i wanna dispute in your post steve is that anyone who fights in the ufc hasnt studied a little, like you said. The ufc is full of world class atheletes, its no longer the day of the barroom brawler. see tank abbot. They study very little of the true principals of many arts. They are not dedicated to a single style, which is what I was saying.They are just that...Athletes...Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members presa_tito Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps While we are on the subject, theres a reason why Wing Chunpractitioners are not allowed in competitions. I think that is because they can't grapple and would be slammed on their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by rushtallica I don't know that Steve would lie, but it's also possible the guy either has fought and not won in the UFC or that the guy trained where Steve did but then went on to train at other places.I agree that if some people were that bad that some of them would likely try and make money and get some popularity by doing it in the UFC and other related contests. I've seen some that've come in saying they trained in tae kwon do or kung fu but didn't fight that way at all, instead relying on jiu-jitsu or some other form of wrestling/grappling, boxing, leg-kicks such as used in tai boxing, and the occasional backfist or rare axe-kick such as used in tae kwon do.Still, it's possible for the guy to have been caught off guard in class by a punch or kick that did some damage. One of my kung fu instructors was a hardcore previous navy Seal, and I caught him with a surprise strike or grapple a couple times out of all the time I trained under him; but he STILL was able to easily recover quickly and find a way to turn things around. Exactly...Every human body has the same weakness and flaws. Alot of the true arts are based on human physics.What do you think made Bruce Lee so amazing at his petite size...He knew Physics like the back of his hand.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by Rocky101 Originally posted by presa_tito Most fights aren't to the death getting your face bit off. If you have that mentality going into a streetfight your already in trouble. Any fight is to the death, one punch can kill. Now if it against a drunk friend or relative, Rex Quon Do will be enough. Seriously though one of the instructors I used to work with had some wannabe MMA fighters come in. Long story short the MMA guy did a take down on my instructor. The instructor bit his chest around the nipple area, the MMA guy jumped off grabbed his chest and said "You can't do that in a fight". We both laughed. LOLGreat story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members presa_tito Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by SteveVHT I went to HS with him and trained with him...Phil Baroni Phil Baroni is a C level fighter on the global scale and the most arrogant bastard in MMA. He doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by presa_tito I think that is because they can't grapple and would be slammed on their heads. You can't grapple with a dead man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by presa_tito Phil Baroni is a C level fighter on the global scale and the most arrogant bastard in MMA. He doesn't count. He is a true douchbag to be honest. But that's what steroids do to people.I never said he was great.When we sparred he got one half assed shot in on me because he was in a rage like he always does. He lost because he lost focus in a ring with my little ass....LOLSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Time to end this thread....I found it.....The greatest Martial Arts style of all time....MOSHZILLA KUNG FU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joeinkc2 Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 lol well baroni may be one of the few that did study a little, lol. hes more of a tough man fighter, not in the top 25 in his weight class. wing chun practitioners are definitly allowed in the ufc, there just arent any that are successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rushtallica Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by SteveVHT Time to end this thread.... I found it..... The greatest Martial Arts style of all time.... MOSHZILLA KUNG FU Agreed~! Thread over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rushtallica Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by joeinkc2 lol well baroni may be one of the few that did study a little, lol. hes more of a tough man fighter, not in the top 25 in his weight class. wing chun practitioners are definitly allowed in the ufc, there just arent any that are successful. I can see the points from either side. I can see where great grapplers don't give anybody almost any chance to strike a lot of times, and a lot of thai boxing moves work great in the ring for wearing people down even when they have a decent defense. I can also see where I was trained to use knuckle punches to the throat and eyes and to try and break arms, fingers, legs, etc. as well as lock them. It's kind of like seeing some kung fu styles not look that great in full contact karate type situations where they're wearing some sort of gloves and can't use a lot of what their styles teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1247649583086431730&q=kung+fu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joeinkc2 Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 people there has been 1 death in mma, that was in a non sanctioned match in the ukraine over ten years ago, also, you are allowed to break someones arm in the ufc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveVHT Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by joeinkc2 people there has been 1 death in mma, that was in a non sanctioned match in the ukraine over ten years ago, also, you are allowed to break someones arm in the ufc. Hence the reason you will never see a real Gung Fu/Kung Fu expert fight in MMA/UFC/K1When you train for dozens of years to break every joint in the body...Like they say....destroy the body and the head dies.Like Wing Chun, it's not about beating someone with force...It's using their own force to destroy them.Look into some sticky hand techniques....You'll be amazed at what you can do to someone way bigger and stronger than you.Size and strength mean absolute {censored} in these situations. It's all technique.A master an Wing Chun for example will take anyone out completely blindfolded. And that is only one small style of it.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joeinkc2 Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 i would think someone would have taken those methods and modify them to fit the rules, i mean thats what the ufc was founded on...put every martial art in the ring and find out whose is supperior. first bjj was dominant, then wrestling, then kickboxing, now every good fighter is a hybrid, no kata bull{censored}, and all that other scam material that the traditional martial arts is made of. once again, i will say that there is not one professional mma fighter that is wing chun strictly. its funny to hear all these experts give their opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ESPisme Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 a wise man once said "There are many paths to the top of the mountain, but no matter which one you take, the view is still just as beautiful." Problem is that very few people actually get to the top to see the truth. But some do...yes, some do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joeinkc2 Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 steve - everyones calling bull{censored} on me when i tell your story on an mma forum, hook me up with some insider info i can throw at em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Red Ant Posted January 3, 2006 Moderators Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by SteveVHT Hence the reason you will never see a real Gung Fu/Kung Fu expert fight in MMA/UFC/K1 When you train for dozens of years to break every joint in the body... Like they say....destroy the body and the head dies. Like Wing Chun, it's not about beating someone with force...It's using their own force to destroy them. Look into some sticky hand techniques....You'll be amazed at what you can do to someone way bigger and stronger than you. Size and strength mean absolute {censored} in these situations. It's all technique. A master an Wing Chun for example will take anyone out completely blindfolded. And that is only one small style of it. Steve I'm just about the least "mystical" guy you're ever likely to meet. And yet, the existence and effectiveness of chi has been proven to me beyond all doubt, by Sifu Fong among others. I was the lucky idiot selected for demostration of his one inch punch technique about 10 years ago during a seminar. I stood there in as solid a stance as i could muster, holding two NYC phone books against my chest/abdomen. When Sifu Fong punched me i flew backwards through the air for 3-4 feet and landed on my back on some mats... no way you can "fake" or "charlatan" that kind of impact. That being said, i completely agree with everyone who said "there is no best martial art" and the whole "many paths to the mountain to the same beautiful view" thing. Its really up to the individual, and once one attains a certain level of mastery it becomes less about "form" and "style" and more about flow and self-expression.... not unlike music, methinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members snakum Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 the existence and effectiveness of chi has been proven to me beyond all doubt, by Sifu Fong among others. Uhh ... yeah .... errr ... it just doesn't work on TV, or when scientists are present (re. about ten different tests including two on TV, one with George Dillman's death touch nonsense). I was the lucky idiot selected for demostration of his one inch punch technique about 10 years ago during a seminar. One-knuckle punch ... two-knuckle punch ... pure physics. Bruce Lee admitted as much. Stop Master Quai Chang's hips and shoulders from rotating and he couldn't knock out a ten-year-old girl. From an old fart who spent twenty-plus years practicing the 'sprititual' side of Martial Arts, so to speak ... I gotta chuckle when I read this kind of nonsense. James Randi's foundation has offered a million bucks to anyone who can prove the existence of Ki/Chi, energy fields or any of this other garbage. He still has his money. I've never been so embarassed for anyone in my life as when I saw this kid who'd gone to live in China and practice Chi Kung with a wise old dude make a complete fool of himself on national TV. Every time this wise old nut-job "threw his energy" at this guy, a completely untrained person could see his knees flex as he jumped ... er ... I mean was 'thrown' backwards by the Chi Kung death rays. It was almost as embarassing as watching George Dillman, who used to be a decent Okinawan Stylist/Teacher unable to reproduce his death touch on a 135lb Physicist.I've been hearing this kind of unmitigated bull{censored} since I was 18 years old. At one time, I wanted to believe it, too. I wanted to meet a wise old Sensei who could teach me to kill with one punch to the solar plexis and show me the path to enlightenment at the same time. Unfortunately, in all those years of karate training and then spiritual training I never saw anything that wasn't totally baloney or simple physics.Mr. Randi's money is safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zadiqof Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 22 ruger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Red Ant Posted January 3, 2006 Moderators Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by snakum One-knuckle punch ... two-knuckle punch ... pure physics. Bruce Lee admitted as much. Stop Master Quai Chang's hips and shoulders from rotating and he couldn't knock out a ten-year-old girl. I never said there was anything mystical involved... i think of Chi as simply the abily to focus and have your entire body act in concert with itself. No mumbo-jumbo required - purely the result of training. and it was a one-INCH punch, no one knuckle sillyness. and yes, you didnt need to be on TV to know that Sifu Fong's entire body was involved in what resulted as one inch of movement of his fist. Of COURSE his hips rotated.. why whouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members presa_tito Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 These wing chun responses are ridiculous. If there are any good practicioners, they would have been someone to represent these "death punches" or whatever magic spells they have. Even if they're not allowed to compete as they say, I'm sure someone would stray from the pack. They can come to Pride and step in the ring if they are good enough. I'm leaving this thread alone before I offend anyone. Even though most have probably seen this, here you go. http://youtube.com/w/Royce-Gracie-v.s.-Jason-Delucia?v=jFWw46P-6WM&search=royce%20kung%20fu P.S. Steve, I can hardly imagine you could best Phil in a sparring match. I'm pretty sure he would rip you a new one then or now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members snakum Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by Red Ant I never said there was anything mystical involved... i think of Chi as simply the abily to focus and have your entire body act in concert with itself. No mumbo-jumbo required - purely the result of training. and it was a one-INCH punch, no one knuckle sillyness. and yes, you didnt need to be on TV to know that Sifu Fong's entire body was involved in what resulted as one inch of movement of his fist. Of COURSE his hips rotated.. why whouldn't they? My bad ... I guess I lumped you into the 'Mystical Death Touch' crowd. Yes ... it is pure physics, and watching a highly trained person do it is an awesome experience. The schools I knew of that taught it when I was a kid started with one finger's distance, then one knuckles' distance (you actually placed your finger or second knuckle joint of your index finger on the board to guage distance), hence "one-finger/knuckle punch". When I was young, in shape, and coordinated, I worked up to breaking the old "one-inch pine" boards (that were always about 3/4" thick ) from one-finger's distance, but today I'd need a tire iron to do it (re. 'Southern' Kung Fu ). These wing chun responses are ridiculous. If there are any good practicioners, they would have been someone to represent these "death punches" or whatever magic spells they have. I have no doubt Wing Chun can be affective against some drunken idiot in a bar. But I agree ... to say a 135 lb WC fighter can step in the ring with a trained grappler/shoot-fighter/Muay Thai fighter and waste everyone is beyond laughable. It is sheer fantasy. Welcome to reality folks ... I'd put my whole paycheck on an untrained 220 ex-con whose been fighting weekly for years against any 135lb 'GrandMaster' of anything on the planet. I've seen it over and over and over. Some 5th Dan Black Belt drops into a 'fighting stance' as a bar fight jumps off ... and very quickly, the beefy, mean-assed, untrained streetfighter has ripped him a new asshole in about five minutes and is laughing. The number of hi-level traditional martial arts teachers that are highly physically trained AND experienced in REAL fighting in miniscule. Real life just doesn't work the way we'd like. Take this same 135lb Super Sensei and throw him in the ring with a TRAINED, experienced fighter and he's going to be beaten bloody in short order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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