Members program_insect Posted July 28, 2009 Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 Hello, I am a noob at music notation, a fact which will be made abundantly clear as you read the rest of my post... I am looking at a fake book which makes liberal use of chord symbols like "C-" or maybe it is "C_", not sure. What kind of chord is this? It's usually, but not always, a seventh chord. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted July 28, 2009 Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 My uneducated guess is it's a C-diminished...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members program_insect Posted July 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 I thought they might be diminished, but I also see symbols like "Co" which I take to mean diminished. Also, there are many of these "-" chords, more than I would expect to see if it meant diminished. If it matters, I'm looking at "The Real Book". Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cjoy Posted July 28, 2009 Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 C- is C minor The "Real Book" is the Jazz fake book that I and most musicians my age (guys in their 30s) learned Jazz standards from. Being the learning guide for so many musicians, the chord symbols used in the "Real Book" have become the standard in a way. The one I learned most of the Jazz standards from is the 5th edition. I took a look through the other editions and noticed that they all use slightly different notation standards, for example the 2nd edition notates Cmaj7 as Cmaj7 but notates Cmin7 as Cmi7. The 5th edition of the "Real Book" generally uses the following standards to notate chord symbols: Chord Family...Chord Symbols minor.............C-, C-6, C-7, C-9, C-add9, C-11, C-13, C-(maj7), etc.. major.............Cmaj, C6, Cmaj7, Cmaj9, Cadd9, Cmaj7#11, Cmaj13, etc.. dominant........C7, C7sus, C9, C7#11, C13, C7b9, C7(b9,#5), etc.. http://www.myguitarworkshop.com/Lessons/Chords_and_Chord_Symbols_Part1/Chords_and_Chord_Symbols_Part1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted July 28, 2009 Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 I hate it when books use non-standard notation. I'm trying to decipher a version of Nuages and am puzzled by C(a 'o' with a line through it)7 (half-dimished 7; C Eb Gb Bb maybe?) and triangles (augmented?) and circles (which I think means diminished). And the book has no key at the front or back. This is nuts. There's actually a book I have someplace (and it's driving me nuts I can't find it) that lists all the chord notation variants, spells them out, explains why they're wrong, and suggests a logical standard system of notation. Rohmer & Wright or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted July 28, 2009 Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 u can check it all out here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_notation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members program_insect Posted July 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 Thanks for the info! I was confused because I think I saw "min" used also, in addition to "-", but maybe I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Binkeys Posted July 28, 2009 Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 The same chord can be written in many different ways. Jazz charts often use symbols as a shorthand. Common symbols include using the dash for minor. C minor, for example, can be written as Cm, Cmin, C-, or Cmi. The small o indicates a diminished chord. It can also be written as Cdim. The "C(a 'o' with a line through it)7 " is a half-diminishd choord, which can also be written as Cm7(b5). The triangle indicates a Major 7th chord which can also be written as Cmaj7 or Cma7. One additional comment... Since we're talking about jazz lead sheets here, it's worth noting that jazz musicians will embellish these chords, adding extensions beyond those indicated in the chord title. (They'll also reharmonize the tunes, but that's another discussion.) So, C- might be understood, depending on context, as Cm(maj7) or Cm9, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Purity_Control Posted July 28, 2009 Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 Well that's answered a few questions i've been wondering about for a while too Are the longer chords normally split between hands to play on keys? Just wondering how stuff like 11ths and 13ths are usually played? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mourndark Posted July 28, 2009 Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 Typically, yes. Generally most extended tertian chords (9, 11 etc.) will be spread across hands as they generally sound too disonant and messy otherwise. When voicing, try not to put the extra notes in the same octave as the root and dominant (5th). Particularly with 11ths, the dominant is frequently left out of the chord all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted July 28, 2009 Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 When you're following lead sheets, keep in mind that the chords indicated often imply voice leading and bass movement. A flat nine chord (C7b9 or CEGBbDb) may sound quite jarring if you just jump on the flat nine from nowhere; it will sound good if the flat nine is approached from the D on the way to a C and also good--but different--if it's on the way from the C to the D. Location location location. The use of upper and altered chord voices may also be idiomatic to a specific time and place. For example, the voicings and turnarounds in Warner Brothers' "The Legal Fakebook" are from the original sheet music and are very much of the time and place of the song's publication; they may sound pretty corny to a jazz musician. On the other hand, the voicings and turnarounds in "The Real Book" are much more in the jazz idiom of the '50s and '60s; they may sound strange to a stage-oriented singer. The song matters more than the notated chords. Your ears should be the final judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members program_insect Posted July 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 29, 2009 Thanks for the info. As a side note, wow! Working from lead sheets is really a revelation after reading "classical" style music for a while now. I'm excited to be working on playing music, rather than just playing it back :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted July 29, 2009 Members Share Posted July 29, 2009 If you are playing in a band, you have to worry about leaving space for the bass player. Most times simply playing the upper partials works. For example: C9: C E G Bb D You might play a Gm triad (G Bb D) leaving the bassist to outline the rest of the chord (C E G). Other simple triads that can be used over a C7 chord to yield more complex chords: Bb major triad (Bb D F) makes the chord C11: C E G Bb D F D minor triad (D F A) makes the chord C13: C E G Bb D F A Using triads like this when improvising is a common jazz technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jdubbs Posted July 29, 2009 Members Share Posted July 29, 2009 Voicing in your left hand with a band is very different than if you are playing solo piano. With a band you want to make sure you stay out of the bassist's way so it is common to use rootless voicings. check out these videos below to see voicings over common ii-V-I progressions http://www.lessonrating.com/free-piano-lessons-ii-V-I-four-note-piano-voicings-12-keys.html http://www.lessonrating.com/free-piano-lessons-ii-V-I-basic-piano-voicings-12-keys.html Another cool thing to check out if you're not yet hip to them are 4th voicings ala McCoy Tyner. Also the So What voicings which are built off 4ths with thirds on the top. Hope this helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members program_insect Posted July 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 29, 2009 Wow thanks for all the info, now I'll go absorb this and get back to you in oh, 5 years or so :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frogmonkey Posted July 29, 2009 Members Share Posted July 29, 2009 I hate it when books use non-standard notation. I'm trying to decipher a version of Nuages and am puzzled by C(a 'o' with a line through it)7 (half-dimished 7; C Eb Gb Bb maybe?) and triangles (augmented?) and circles (which I think means diminished). And the book has no key at the front or back.This is nuts. There's actually a book I have someplace (and it's driving me nuts I can't find it) that lists all the chord notation variants, spells them out, explains why they're wrong, and suggests a logical standard system of notation. Rohmer & Wright or something like that. Actually, those are pretty standard symbols in the jazz world. The 'o' with a line is indeed half-diminished, aka minor7b5.The triangle means Major 7.The o means diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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