Members Yoozer Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 I've come to realize that the yearly Messe trip sort of resembles a well-planned pilgrimage; ordering tickets for the ICE and reserving seats (next time I really have to do this even earlier). I updated my TomTom with the latest maps (the entirety of Western Europe is not cheap ) and dumped all the vital stuff in my laptop backpack. That's two books (note to self, next time take just one since I'm not going to finish 500+ pages in 3 hours), energy drinks, money, driver's license, entry ticket and train ticket - basically everything but my passport - d'oh! After arriving early in Dusseldorf by car and not causing too many accidents (I hate driving in the city), I took the ICE to Frankfurt and arrived at 8:48. I then went to the Messe with the S-bahn since the ticket for the Messe also gives you a free ride to the Messe. Gotta love quality public transportation . Before I went there, I made a list of what I wanted to check out. - see if the Oberheim SEM and the FutureRetro XS are there - see if any modular stuff is there - check out Fatar controllers to see if they've put the Virus KB/KC/TI keybed in one of 'm - check out the Yamaha CP - ask DCAM how they did the modeling Disappointingly few items could be completed. There didn't appear to be a Superbooth / Schneiders Buero stand of sorts and Doepfer wasn't there either, so none of that. DCAM didn't appear to have any of the coders there, but I didn't check out further since most of the screen space was devoted to promoting BFD. The keybed type used in the KB/KC/TI is called a TP8 and is apparently only used in certain synthesizers (confirmed: also in the Radikal Accelerator!) - but not in a separate controller. You'd almost think of buying one of those things by itself and then building a case around it - because it feels so damn good, but it'd probably be even cheaper to just buy a secondhand Virus KB. While trying to find the Superbooth, I stumbled on something else; namely the Helmtronic (Formant) Challenger, and the Helmtronic Black Moon. The latter is a 3U rack module containing half of the Challenger (so 2 oscillators instead of 4) and fewer routing options (the Challenger's filled with them). This was just a prototype, but it's got lovely solid chunky knobs and looks really nice - with a solid sound and the possibility to overdrive the amplifier for a nice, saturated sound. To top it off, MIDI's built in so no messing with an extra CV/Gate converter box. Here's what it looks like, street price estimated at 660 euros. (big version) And the back: And here's what the Challenger looks like - if a Minimoog mated with a Mono-Poly (4 oscillators!) and got babies, these would be it: (big version) On to the Waldorf stand, where I saw a box with PPG 3.V. When I looked at the required specs, I thought I somehow traveled back in time or completely missed out on the announcement (not bloody likely) - only a Pentium 3 at 1GHz required? What? Turns out it's actually new and someone else made a video of it so I am not going to bother with pictures: [YOUTUBE]rcyy0TKSiKI[/YOUTUBE] I tested the Blofeld (finally - didn't do that before, go figure) and was pleasantly surprised. I used to have a Micro Q and a Q and eventually got tired of the cold and precise sound; the Blofeld has certainly improved on that and was a joy to edit. There was also a prototype of the Zarenbourg. Prototype because I managed to crash and restart it while turning the volume knob and because the knob switching between the models (Tines, Reeds, etc.) didn't work; it seemed fixed at a single model. My big WTF-question of the day is - why the hell it needs such a huge case? Not even a real Rhodes is that big. The SV-1 is downright slender. So it has speakers built in - but the height makes 'm so small that they're not that much fun. So perhaps you want to dump synths on top of it - but that's almost enough space for a desk! Next stop: Rhizome! What is it? It's actually really clever - a custom sequencer running on a stripped down Windows XP and a powerful set of guts (Intel Core 2 at 3 GHz) and a 24" screen partially covered by the UI, with an RME audio interface inside. Video: 7ho3kINwur0 Unlike a Receptor, this means all your plugins just run the way they're supposed to and don't have to be made compatible. It's got a sort of mapper built in for VST parameters - so sort of like how Ableton creates a bunch of sliders for all parameters, this does the same and you can immediately access them by means of the row of rotaries and a matrix. This is the x0x-counterpart to the more MPC-like OpenLabs solution. The planned release date is in about 6 months, and they're open to good suggestions. Put the D16 collection in there and you basically have Rebirth in an actual hardware box. Here's a video of me trying some options; you can turn the lowest part of the display in either a step overview, each step can have accent and roll, and the 3 mode buttons on the right determine if the step is on/off or if roll/accent are enabled. There's a sample player built in so you don't need a separate plugin for that. Speaking of sample-players, next stop was Elektron! Poor MachineDrum and MonoMachine - the OctaTrack was completely stealing the show with a funky tripped-out deep techno set. I managed to yoink away a precious collector's item that eventually will become worth a fortune: The OctaTrack reads everything directly from the CF card, and only has a small piece of internal memory for buffering, stretching and effects. No loading into RAM required. Display is similar to that of the MonoMachine, and operation looked intuitive. Each track has 2 own effects from vanilla to boutique, and it'll probably get some master effects too so you can keep volume levels in check with a simple multiband compressor. If I had to do a techno set, I'd take this instead of an MPC; it's possible to fill an entire evening with it. After that, to Roland to check out the Gaia SH01. The idea was nice - 3 oscillators, nice control panel, compact size - mh, this could be a nice competitor for the R3. Thing is, they ruined it. Good god, what a disappointment. Dear Roland; it's not bad that you repackage existing technology. It's bad that you repackage {censored}ty existing technology and don't learn from your mistakes. The knobs step. The filter squeals, badly. You can't do anything with the spread of the supersaw - mostly because it's not even one, it's just a looped sample. In other words, this is a beefed-up SH32 minus sequencer. Oscillator sync disables the filter and forces it into mono mode. This isn't a real VA. Look, it was real simple! All groundwork was already done for you in the V-Synth! Take the VA in there, beef up the polyphony to 16 which should not be rocket science, re-release with somewhat more dedicated control surface - people happy! Instead, this. The Germans have a great term for it, and it's "v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted March 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 On the same spot there was the Moog stand, with mr. Bowen's Solaris and the Taurus, which is also just bloody massive. Wow. I'd almost want one to hook up to a keyboard, because those pedals aren't really the thing for me, but good lord, the sound. Wow. I had a great chat with forum member controlvoltage who you may also know as mr. Amos from Moog, and he told me some interesting stuff that I'm not going to tell you because it's like, really interesting and stuff. You'll see it when it gets there if it does. I dropped by at the Rhodes stand where the new MK7 with MIDI was demo'd, and overheard a live R&D chat about implementing split mode so you could completely switch off the pickups for a number of tines if you wanted to use just the Rhodes itself for MIDI control. Sounds really good layered, too - a laptop with what I assume to be Logic was hooked up and providing extra bits. I asked whether it was a big hurdle - lots of MK1 and MK2s still available. Far more are in the US so Europe would be an easier market in that regard - but the servicing to get things done to make 'm bearable to play was a burden, and something the MK7 doesn't need. The MK7s keyboard is, by the way, really really nice. I still think it sounds really sweet and I'd love to have one. Thing is, I just have 2 kidneys and still need one. During that test, something else became obvious. Pretty much all manufacturers except for Nord seem to have forgotten what an actual Rhodes sounds like. If the Rhodes is the Mona Lisa, Roland (and to my dismay, to some extent also the Korg SV1) basically redraw a cubist version with MS Paint, throw a bunch of lensflares over it and call it a job well done. What the hell!? While the Yamaha's CP1 version got closer than the joke that could be found on the Roland machines, it still doesn't nail it. Speaking about the CP1, the wooden keyboard plays nicely. The UI is just a bit bland, and it's rather expensive. Conclusion: Only Clavia does this right and manages to put something credible there. Further on the Yamaha stand: let's test a few of their acoustics. Hm. OK. Let's test some of their grands. Uh, damn, occupied, occupied, occ- huh, what? This isn't a Yamaha. It's a B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 Awesome report! Thanks for posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goldphinga Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 Thanks Yoozer! We really appreciate this detailed feedback!! Great stuff man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 Yoozer wins one million internets for that fabulous report. Thanks very much, Yooz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hogberto Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 yeah thanks mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TropicThink Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 Great report, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundxplorer Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 I had a great chat with forum member controlvoltage who you may also know as mr. Amos from Moog, and he told me some interesting stuff that I'm not going to tell you because it's like, really interesting and stuff. GRRRRRRRR! Anyway, nice report. Damn that's a good price on the Black Moon rack. Cheaper than an SE-1X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members plaid_emu Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 Thanks. I had no clue about the PPG Wave 3.V. Looks like it has the Waveterm sampling! That's the most exciting news coming from Messe this year (for me anyway). I wish I could speak German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 rhizome that is clever! how cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnalogBastard Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 Originally Posted by Yoozer I had a great chat with forum member controlvoltage who you may also know as mr. Amos from Moog, and he told me some interesting stuff that I'm not going to tell you because it's like, really interesting and stuff. GRRRRRRRR! Anyway, nice report. Damn that's a good price on the Black Moon rack. Cheaper than an SE-1X. Nice pix & commentary ... but missed what Amos you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulo_ Posted March 25, 2010 Members Share Posted March 25, 2010 Thanks. Very informative and a good read. Hadn't seen the Rhizome thing or the Zarenbourg prototype anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cl516 Posted March 26, 2010 Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 wow best report yet. much of the regurgitated info online didn't even cover stuff like the helmtronic and zarebourg. thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted March 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 I know you said the Accelerator is going to use it, but is it available as a controller keyboard from Fatar? If I had the skills and know-how to roll my own, that's the keybed I'd use. I returned later to the Fatar stand and asked about this specifically - but no . Not that I'min the market or another VA,but it's a little disappointing to hear about Gaia - it looked promising. Yeah, same here. It could've been more without breaking the bank. Did you get to hear the Challenger? Just wondering if it sounds as good as it looks. No, but I did get to hear the Black Moon, and the Challenger's basically twice that. From the impression I got it seems to have a more raw sound than my SE1x, even though the overall character is intended to be a bit Moogish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Hamburglar Posted March 26, 2010 Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 Excellent post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted March 26, 2010 Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 SH-32: Synthesizer This 4-part multitimbral synth uses new Wave Acceleration Synthesis to deliver up to 32 voices of fat synth waves and entirely new waveforms. New Wave Acceleration Synthesis creates a variety of synth waves-67 total Includes standard synth waves plus new waveforms like Spectrum and Noise Up to 32-note/4-part multitimbral operation 2 main oscillators and 2 suboscillators with ultra-thick Subsonic mode Pulse width modulation and oscillator "hard" sync capability Patches using oscillator sync will be monophonic Sound Generator 2 x Oscillators (with Sub Oscillator) Note Patches using Oscillator Sync will be monophonic. These patches can be used in Part 1. Sub Oscillator, PWM, Oscillator Sync, and Ring Modulation cannot be used together in the same patch. GAIA SH-01: Synthesizer Triple-Fat Virtual Analog engine Sound Generator Section Virtual analog synthesizer sound generator (Number of part: 1) (Oscillator + Filter + Amp + Envelopes + LFO) x 3 PCM sound generator (Number of parts: 15) Yoozer, on paper these are set out so differently by Roland. The PCM bit at the very end (GAIA) seems to have no explanation so far. Roland did not suggest anywhere the the SH-32 was a VA, in fact they even claimed advantages in not being a VA. The GAIA has VA written all over it and other than PCM, there is no suggestion the VA engine is any different from other Roland VA. What goes. Please re run your comparison to the SH-32, are you sure, because that is one big claim just now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted March 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 there is no suggestion the VA engine is any different from other Roland VA. Yes, there is, and that is that the thing forces itself in to monophonic mode and disables the filter entirely when you enable oscillator sync. The SH32 does exactly the same. No Roland VA does this because they all have enough CPU power left to do this with one hand tied behind the back while juggling Microkorgs. The JP80X0 has CTRL1 and CTRL2 that allow you to change the supersaw. The GAIA just has Pulsewidth. It doesn't do anything for the supersaw; all you can do is choose a "variation" of the supersaw that's less super. Please re run your comparison to the SH-32, are you sure, because that is one big claim just now No. I've actually played the damn thing for 10 minutes and I have specifically tested this functionality. Sorry to ruin your dreams, but blame the responsible party - Roland - not the messenger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted March 26, 2010 Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 Really glad to hear that the Accelerator sounds good. I really like Joerg and what he is trying to do - he really doesn't compromise much on his vision, and sometimes his products suffer a bit for it - I have a love/hate relationship with the Spectralis. I could use a keyboard, and who knows - if this is reasonably priced, I may see one in my future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted March 26, 2010 Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 Sorry to ruin your dreams, but blame the responsible party - Roland - not the messenger there was nothing {censored}tier sounding my opinion than the sh32. so rather than just use 3 sh201 engines they reboxed 3 sh32s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paolo Di Nicolantonio Posted March 26, 2010 Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 Thanks as usual for your report, Yoozer I'm impressed by that "Challenger"!!! P.S. I hope you had never planned to apply for a job at Roland... I think you have burned all bridges for a good twenty years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted March 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 I wouldn't want a job in the MI anyway. I can't sell anything to people - I can only demo with a lot of fervor something that I love . On the other hand, it's not good to surround yourself only with people that agree with you. I understand compromises. Try to cram everything in a single box for a fixed price point and you'll end up with a laptop. But the compromise for this thing simply ended up in the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bloopbleep Posted March 26, 2010 Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 Really glad to hear that the Accelerator sounds good. I really like Joerg and what he is trying to do - he really doesn't compromise much on his vision, and sometimes his products suffer a bit for it - I have a love/hate relationship with the Spectralis. I could use a keyboard, and who knows - if this is reasonably priced, I may see one in my future... I'm with you on the Accelerator. I'm diggin' Spectralis 2 features and demos but will see what the new KB got to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members asynchro_nous Posted March 26, 2010 Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 Fantastic report, Yoozer -- if a bit depressing. I'm most intrigued by the Octatrack; does it seem like it will have enough horsepower to do timestretching with decent fidelity? And I agree -- the chunky knobs look absolutely wonderful on the Helm stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gregwar Posted March 26, 2010 Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 YOOZER WINS , FATALITYPERFECT !time 8800vital 30000 total 41600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Needle201 Posted March 26, 2010 Members Share Posted March 26, 2010 Thanks for the detailed report, Yoozer.. Was a pleasure to read.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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