Members -DOOM- Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Hey guys - I've touched on this before, though opinions seem to greatly vary. I've currently got a SOLIDSTATE head that has 2 outputs and advises: do not run below 4ohms total impedance. Currently i'm running 1 H&K 8ohm cab with no issues. I'd really like to run a 16ohm orange cab alone, though am unsure if this can be done. Some say 'yes' though the output of the head will greatly decrease? Please comment.... If this isn't possible, can two 8ohm quads be run? Ideally, the orange is being bought to later accompany either a marshall or mesa tube head, though I still need to be able to run my current setup. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by DOOM-900 'yes' though the output of the head will greatly decrease? Please comment.... that's kind of correct. ohms is a measure of resistance, so the greater the ohmage, the greater the resistance your amp will see, and it will produce less power. It will not affect the volume of the amp as much as it will affect the amp's headroom, which can be a bad thing for a solid-state amp. In other words, it won't hurt your amp, but it is very possible it will sound like crap at higher volumes. The best thing you can do for this amp get a good 4ohms 4x12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hal9000 Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by DOOM-900 Hey guys - I've touched on this before, though opinions seem to greatly vary.I've currently got a SOLIDSTATE head that has 2 outputs and advises: do not run below 4ohms total impedance. Currently i'm running 1 H&K 8ohm cab with no issues.I'd really like to run a 16ohm orange cab alone, though am unsure if this can be done. Some say 'yes' though the output of the head will greatly decrease? Please comment.... If this isn't possible, can two 8ohm quads be run?Ideally, the orange is being bought to later accompany either a marshall or mesa tube head, though I still need to be able to run my current setup. Cheers Luckily, the correct answer here isn't based on what everybody thinks. The answer is based on physics. Yes, you can run a 16 Ohm cab on a 4 Ohm minimum SS head. However, you'll likely only get around 25% of the total power capacity (That's 6 dB less output volume). As I said before, you can most likely rewire your 16 Ohm Orange Cab for 4 Ohms. Usually, a 16 Ohm cab is comprised of four 16 Ohm speakers wired in series-parallel. All you have to do is wire them all in parallel for a 4 Ohm load and you're golden. Plus, most tube amps will drive 4 Ohms no problem, so if you're still going to buy a tube head, you likely won't have to rewire the cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 ok - I really don't want to have to rewire the orange cab, so in this instance you're saying "forget about the orange or lose half your output, right"? Could I run two 8ohm cabs? Clean headroom is of no overall concern as I never use that chanel..... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hal9000 Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by DOOM-900 ok - I really don't want to have to rewire the orange cab, so in this instance you're saying "forget about the orange or lose half your output, right"? Could I run two 8ohm cabs? Clean headroom is of no overall concern as I never use that chanel..... Cheers Actually, it's 75% of your power lost to a 16 Ohm cab. Yes, if you used two (2) 8 Ohm cabs, that would be a parallel load of 4 Ohms. So, you'd get maximum power that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by hal9000 Actually, it's 75% of your power lost to a 16 Ohm cab. Yes, if you used two (2) 8 Ohm cabs, that would be a parallel load of 4 Ohms. So, you'd get maximum power that way. 75% loss - Fu#k!!......not good. ok - With respect to the 2 8ohm cabs, am i to understand that i can plug each one individually into each outlet provided on the head or, are they to be daisy chained through one outlet alone? Further, when i get myself a tube head with say a 16ohm outlet, am I to understand that I could daisychain both 8ohm cabs through the one outlet there? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hal9000 Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by DOOM-900 75% loss - Fu#k!!......not good.ok - With respect to the 2 8ohm cabs, am i to understand that i can plug each one individually into each outlet provided on the head or, are they to be daisy chained through one outlet alone?Further, when i get myself a tube head with say a 16ohm outlet, am I to understand that I could daisychain both 8ohm cabs through the one outlet there?Cheers Your head has two parallel outputs. Plug both 8 Ohm cabs in there and BAM! 4 Ohms total. Most tube amps have either multiple jacks or an impedance selector, so you won't know how the cabs will hook up until you get the amp. Most likely the amp will have parallel jacks, as series is unusual. BTW, what's wrong with rewiring the Orange Cab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by hal9000 BTW, what's wrong with rewiring the Orange Cab? Hey mate - I'm located in Australia - these cabs sell for $1200 new if you're very lucky and the used market is all but non existant. I imagine getting a techie to do the mods would result in some kind of abhorent charge though have yet to confirm this, though will. Plus theres that whole paralell / series debate going and changes to tone that I know nothing about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by DOOM-900 Hey guys - I've touched on this before, though opinions seem to greatly vary.I've currently got a SOLIDSTATE head that has 2 outputs and advises: do not run below 4ohms total impedance. Currently i'm running 1 H&K 8ohm cab with no issues.I'd really like to run a 16ohm orange cab alone, though am unsure if this can be done. Some say 'yes' though the output of the head will greatly decrease? Please comment.... If this isn't possible, can two 8ohm quads be run?Ideally, the orange is being bought to later accompany either a marshall or mesa tube head, though I still need to be able to run my current setup. Cheers Sure,you'll just lose power. And yes, a pair of 8 ohm cabs in parallel will be at 4 ohms total load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by DOOM-900 Hey mate - I'm located in Australia - these cabs sell for $1200 new if you're very lucky and the used market is all but non existant. I imagine getting a techie to do the mods would result in some kind of abhorent charge though have yet to confirm this, though will. Plus theres that whole paralell / series debate going and changes to tone that I know nothing about! It would maybe take 1/2 hour to rewire the cab in straight parallel. No biggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by tlbonehead It would maybe take 1/2 hour to rewire the cab in straight parallel. No biggie. Have you done this before? I can't be sure but, I beleive I read somewhere that all 4 speaker +ive's and -ives are attached to the same on the imput jack.....Any tonal differences? If one speaker fails, will the amp still produce sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hal9000 Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by DOOM-900 Have you done this before? I can't be sure but, I beleive I read somewhere that all 4 speaker +ive's and -ives are attached to the same on the imput jack.....Any tonal differences? If one speaker fails, will the amp still produce sound? Well, I said that last time we discussed the topic. So, there's at least one instance. It's really quite easy as tlbonehead said. All the speaker's + go to the jack's +. All the speaker's - go to the jack's -. Don't worry about tonal contribution of different impedance taps on the amp. You'll probably get more tonal change from a new instrument cable (which is minimal at best IMO). As for the cab working if one speaker blows, yes it will still work, but will provide a mismatched impedance to your amp. The total load with one speaker blown if all four 16 Ohm speakers are in parallel is (1/16 + 1/16 + 1/16)^-1 = 5.3 Ohms. That's not horrible, and you probably wouldn't notice much of a difference in volume with a tube or SS amp set for 4 Ohms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by hal9000 It's really quite easy as tlbonehead said. All the speaker's + go to the jack's +. All the speaker's - go to the jack's -. Hal - so to confirm....Rewiring the cab this way will result in a 4ohm cab? What would be involved in getting it at 8ohms? Please detail.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by DOOM-900 Hal - so to confirm....Rewiring the cab this way will result in a 4ohm cab? What would be involved in getting it at 8ohms? Please detail.. You can't. Your choices with (4) 16 ohm drivers is 4, 16, or 64 ohms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Hal & Tlbone: thanks for your valued advice guys..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by hal9000 Actually, it's 75% of your power lost to a 16 Ohm cab. Yes, if you used two (2) 8 Ohm cabs, that would be a parallel load of 4 Ohms. So, you'd get maximum power that way. Not necessarily. Different amps work differently with the impedance thing. Some lose more potential power than othjers at higher impedances. You really just have to check the particular amp's specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by tlbonehead Not necessarily. Different amps work differently with the impedance thing. Some lose more potential power than othjers at higher impedances. You really just have to check the particular amp's specs. What would you check - it's rated at 100watt output at 4 ohms. There are no other wattage to ohm selections / listings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hal9000 Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by tlbonehead Not necessarily. Different amps work differently with the impedance thing. Some lose more potential power than othjers at higher impedances. You really just have to check the particular amp's specs. I agree with you. It's not linear most of the time, but I was making a point about power loss in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 well here's the latest development.... I've just bought a new black covered Orange Quad; Is it sick - you betya!!! It was a close call between this and a Framus Dragon quad, though with the price identical, the build and overall quality of the orange could not be beat. I'm having my amp guy mod it for 4ohms. The beauty about the orange is that no soldering is used; the speakers are connected via clips, as if they foresaw and provided for modding. The great thing is that any alterations are quickly reversable. My amp guy did duggest that sound clarity would be somewhat less at 4, rather tham 16ohm? Have you guys heard of this? BTW - It makes my current H&K cab look like a lego set.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by Megadeth Man I was gonna post about Orange cabs before you got one then I saw your last post... It's been my experience that Orange cabs don't really sound good with anything less than an Orange valve head. Of course it's all personal taste. But unless your amp gives out some serious drive your tone could end up being pretty weak. Especially with a trannie head. Hmm - I've seen orange cabs kill with Marshall, boogie and even a soldano. Drive is but a lingering thought, especially given that the (my) head stock standard is insanely driven; an mt2 as a clean boost up front can finetune the rest. N.B: Chuck of Death fame used these heads with no probs in the drive debt; Scott Burns favoured them as well. They are highly underated and are far superior to current marshall stock of similar standing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 We'll see, though I'm not at all concerned - tone is so subjective. What's good for me is not for you and, vice versa. Cheers for your imput though mate. I'll post the outcome when I get the cab back and, I not known for being patient....I hate waiting and it's been only 3 odd hours...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted October 7, 2006 Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by DOOM-900 What would you check - it's rated at 100watt output at 4 ohms. There are no other wattage to ohm selections / listings... You sure? Not in the manual, website, anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by tlbonehead You sure? Not in the manual, website, anywhere? Hey mate - I'm positive; this was taken straight off the back of the head. I have no manual as the head was bought used..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -DOOM- Posted October 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2006 Originally posted by Megadeth Man What head is it you've got? Old marshall vs100. I like the simplicity and the amazing crunch. Detuned as I play, along with my EMG 85, I currently get a very unique crisp, fullish tone not dissimilar to say, carcass (older). This cab was essentially bought as a serious upgrade should I buy a tube monster, but at the moment, I'd like to see how far I can push the current setup....... Old randalls are also something I'm looking into as well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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