New Hammond clones SK-1 and SK-2

[AnotherScott]

 

We know that many people think that playing the Nord piano sounds from the unweighted keyboard isn't as good as using a weighted controller. How will playing the Hammond piano sounds on an unweighted board be any better? It seems like that is being dismissed in this discussion. The Hammond is offering a board that will seemingly compete well with the Nord but they still have the disadvantage of the unweighted keys for piano.

 

 

There are some unweighted actions that are better for piano than Nord's, we'll have to see about the SK1's. I don't think anyone is assuming a piano will play better on the Hammond, just that it won't be any worse.

 

So I don't think it's being dismissed per se... I think it's a given, no piano sound will play wonderfully from an unweighted action. That doesn't make the presence of a piano sound useless, and one reason people have picked Electros over Hammonds in the past is that they sometimes need other sounds, including piano, so now Hammond can at least be competitive there, while providing its own advantages (i.e. drawbars). Neither is the board of choice for a pianist. (Well, except that there is now an Electro with a weighted action... but that presumably will be a weaker board for organ. So that Nord will be the choice for those for whom piano is first and organ is second, and Hammond won't compete there.)

 

Piano may not be a pleasure to play on the unweighted Nords, but you can get by, especially if you're playing stuff that doesn't call for a lot of subtlety and dynamics. If you're playing a more piano-focussed repertoire, no unweighted board is going to be a great choice, so you either travel with two boards, or you make the reverse compromise and play organ on a weighted action. There are very few actions that work pretty well for both, and I don't think anyone is expecting Hammond to break that rule.

[AnotherScott]

 

I can see why they didn't include it on the SK, that's a more advanced feature and you don't want to give all your flagship's features in the budget model.

 

We actually don't yet know how many of these features are or are not in the SK. I think we won't know until there's a manual to download. I would guess they are including at least as much tweakability as they included in its lower priced predecessor, the XK1, which was quite a bit.

[dan88z]

I completely agree on the ability to get by on an unweighted board for piano. It's not a real big deal in a rock band setting, where the subtleties of the piano get lost. That's one reason I'm buying a used Stage in the original config, it will complement my S90ES better than my Electro does in one band, and will eliminate the need for the S90ES in the other band where I play mostly organ but need some piano/EP and the ability to layer some synth in.

I don't have a need for a piano sound that has damper noise, pedal noise or string resonance on a 90db stage, those features would mostly get swallowed up. For studio work, yes those are nice, but there, I'm playing a weighted board if it's not an actual piano.

[nkola]

I'm sold on the weight of this thing alone. I'm used to lugging a 40lb+ Hammond xk-2 and a 50bl+ Kurzweil PC1x around with me everywhere I play... The XK-2 doesn't do pianos and the Kurzweil has some of the worst organ sims I've heard... One keyboard that does it all has a lot of value. For small gigs where there isn't space for my whole rig this SK-1 would be perfect. However, piano dynamics could be a bit tricky on those unweighted waterfall keys... guess thats where the expression pedal comes in handy.

[XK-S -> 3300(2)]

The keys in the New B3/MkII, XK-3/c extend 2" under the cover so although they are not identical to the original the do have a similar pivot point.

 

The following is a copy of something I've posted elsewhere when this topic came up:

 

The keys on the XK-3/3c and lower manuals all extend 2" back into the case to extend the pivot point so that the arc of the key travel is very similar to if not exactly like that of a traditional Hammond. The visible portions of the keys on my XK keybeds match the keybeds of my M2 and M3 exactly.

 

I measured the distance that the keys move on my M2, M3 and XK-3c/lower manual and the front of the key drops 3/8" on the M2 and M3 and 1/2" on the XK-3c/LM. At the back of the key the M2 and M3 drops 3/16" and the XK-3c/LM drops 1/8".

 

I can play my XK-System and M2 at the same time. The M2 output feeds into the effects return of my System. While there is a measurable difference, I cannot feel it while playing. I'm sure there are those whose fingers are attuned to the slightly smaller key travel in the vintage Hammonds and are affected by it. Luckily, I am not.

[MikeyParent]

It's a real product, you can see a vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-vy9QJmFMw

Nice rack mounted delivery system

[Bugzie]

So has anyone put the SK1 thru its paces? Just curious.

[Bugzie]

FYI I just pulled out a pair of monitors (HPR122i's) and a couple of small subs (Proel Flash 15SA's) and ran a line out of my compters sound card to my DJ mixer. Just trying to get a better idea of what it sounds like. I realize that the sound from youtube clips isn't the greatest, but it didn't sound bad. Way better than thru my puters speaker set up anyway. Sounded quite useable to me. Mind you I use a Motif XS8 as my lower board so the piano sounds would probably not get used much. My primary need is for a nonweighted board and B3 souds. I can't decide whether to just get the XK3c or this. I have to hear it and play it.

[alcohol]

I just got back from the store. I have and Electro 2 and hate the piano, elec piano sounds. I just tried the Electro 3 an the SK1. I must have tin ears, but I still hate the Nord piano sounds. I liked the SK1 much better and thought the organ sounds more authentic. I'm going back to try again.

[indytoons]

The piano sounds that ship w/ the E3 suck, IMO. YOu have to download the newer samples on their site and you'll see a BIG improvement. I really like the Bright Grand sample, but there are others that sound excellent as well.

[RetroVintageOld]

For those of you that recently posted, what do you think of the action for piano? I know unweighted action isn't the best choice but some are better than others. I had a hard time playing piano on the Electro and I'm wondering if the SK1 is any better.

[The Pro]

The action on the SK is good for what it is... an unweighted 61 note keyboard. When i bought my SK2 I was sure that I would use it with one of my digital pianos (i have three). But the piano sound on the SK is very good and it's so convenient having everything I need in one board that I use the SK2 alone for many gigs now. Adapting to an unweighted keyboard for piano was a cinch, the acoustic piano and EP's are very gig-worthy, and the Hammond sound is the real thing.

This video was taken last week and it demonstrates the SK acoustic piano sound in a live band setting.

[the_big_e]

Cool playing on the video. Makes me wanna chop my hands off though and just give up

 

Dumb question maybe but how' do you learn to play chops like that, I'm still struggling after all these years (sound's like a song title) to do little more than a blues riff )

 

But back on topic, I tried an SK1 a while ago, just did not like the feel of the unweighted keys any more. I grew up 'learning' piano on an organ (probably why I am such a crap player) but having moved over to both a real piano and a weighted kb, I find unweighted keys just 'strange' to play now. SK1 was pretty cool though but I'd really need to sit down and read the user manual before trying one in anger. Plus there's the question of do I 'really' need another $2k kb? Of course the answer is 'yes' but then again I'd like to stay married (she's a nice girl!).

[XK-S -> 3300(2)]

The SK's have a variety of velocity curves to choose from to help tailor the keyboard response to the Extra Voice being used. Also, a new parameter (Velocity Offset) was added in one of the recent software updates. This parameter adds or subtracts a set amount to the actual velocity played. This parameter can help produce a velocity value high enough to trigger the attack harmonics, piano string strikes etc. that are only generated near full velocity without having to play "Whack-a-mole" with the keys. For players who tend to trigger at full velocity even when they are not trying to can subtract some velocity to soften their playing.

[The Pro]

Cool playing on the video. Makes me wanna chop my hands off though and just give up Dumb question maybe but how' do you learn to play chops like that, I'm still struggling after all these years (sound's like a song title) to do little more than a blues riff )

 

If it's any help, I grew up playing/learning on organ first and didn't get into piano until much later, but i've been playing professionally for over forty years now so my chops have had many years to grow. I don't know specifically who or where I stole my licks from but its prolly just accumulative. The best advice is to find good regular jam sessions with ace players like the one this video came from and go for it. And don't chop your hands off...

[holdsg]

Used to own a used Hammond XK-1, sold it last year after my gig changed and I didn't really need it anymore. Also helps that I picked up a Kurzweil PC3LE7 and I am finding the KB3 organs good enough for what I do. However, I still would kinda dig having a dedicated organ again, and started seeing talk about this new 15 lb clonewheel, and I've been wanting to try one. Have any of you actually seen any in stores yet?