New Hammond clones SK-1 and SK-2

[DJ RAZZ]

Man if you can, try not to worry too much. I do understand your frustration, been there many times. You WAIT and WAIT and then an instrument like the Nord Electro 3 seasons and you pull the trigger and then 6 months later something and in the immediate ballpark, something rears it's ugly head.

 

Good marketing on both companies no doubt. In Hammond's defense, they have not put anything portable out in a while and nothing ever like this. Give it a year and something else will be here as well and you can have 3 to decide about.

 

Do you have the 61 or 73 key model, and is this being used as an acoustic piano as well or just a second tier organ and some extra sounds. Also Nord's library is vast. Though non of that matters if you are an organ purist or extremest.

[DJ RAZZ]

I think what I meant when I said "Nord killer' is basically this.

Hammond has been doing their own thing for a while and there are many differences in their past products and Clavia's. It has been a pick a camp kind of thing.

Now Hammond has a new product yhat produces more similarities while still being a Hammond. This makes people really compare and contrast thus lining up features side by side so to speak.

[Citizen Klaus]

 

Good marketing on both companies no doubt. In Hammond's defense, they have not put anything portable out in a while and nothing ever like this. Give it a year and something else will be here as well and you can have 3 to decide about.

 

 

We already do. For some reason, people never seem to remember Roland's VR-700, despite the fact that it's relatively new -- even newer, IIRC, than the Electro 3.

[DJ RAZZ]

Yeah, pretty cool board, but big, bulky, and heavy. Good sounds and performance features, but the organ is so so. Just my opinion. Did not even like the action better than the Electro 3 for piano. Bad for such a large keyboard I think. They have a newer one that was introduced at NAMM you would have to really be thirsty to drink that Cool Aide. Very heavy and very expensive. But then so was the VK88 and the Korg BX3.

[DJ RAZZ]

Well said. The Nord just makes a better attempt at the compromise between piano and organ action. But until I can try the action on the SK1 it is hard say. I personally do not like the action on the XK1 for anything other than organ so it's controller/midi enticements are a waste in my mind. The SK1 would travel well though and solo in a pinch if Hammond organ sound and drawbars were the most imperative things to the player or gig.

[dan88z]

the thing about gear is if you always wait for the next big thing, you'll always be waiting for the next big thing! we have to understand that soon as we buy that piece of gear we want/need, something better will come out 6 months later. So you either live with what you have - is it doing the job you bought it for? - or you sell it and buy the new one. Some people like to trade up every time something new comes out, others hang onto gear for a long time. I figure as long as it's working properly and doing it's job, then I'm OK. I'm pulling the trigger on my first new board since I got my S90ES, and it's not even going to be a new one, I'm getting a used Nord Stage Compact for a good price. It will expand the capability my Electro has by giving me the layering capability and the synth and allow me to play leads from an unweighted keyboard with the pitch stick. I wanted a Kronos or Stage 2 and realized for my needs, I don't have to have all those capabilities. 99% of my use is live- and things like string resonance, damper noise, the lid position will not matter. Full workstation capability like the Kronos will be wasted on what I need live, so while it'd be great to have, it's just not worth it for me to spend the $$ on it right now. Maybe when it's time to replace the S90ES, I can look into a workstation like that.

[Outkaster]

 

We already do. For some reason, people never seem to remember Roland's VR-700, despite the fact that it's relatively new -- even newer, IIRC, than the Electro 3.

 

 

 

That's because the Roland stuff is terrible.

[-groovatious-]

[video=youtube;C-vy9QJmFMw]

 

The most enjoyable part of this video for me was not the keyboard...

[AnotherScott]

IMO, the keyboard on the Roland VR-700 is much better for piano than the keyboard on the Electro 3. And it has splits and layers, which the E3 does not have (but does not have separate outs, or any way to pan the sounds to accomplish the same thing). It has some other advantages over the E3, like 76 keys (to low E), pitch bend and mod wheels, a couple of other things, it's really not a bad piece at all... and of course the E3 also has some advantages over the Roland, like the sample library and multiple/changeable pianos. But yeah, the Roland is big and heavy.

 

I think the talk of whether the SK1 is a "Nord Killer" comes from the fact that it's the first big name competitive organ that hits the E3 at its biggest strength, ultra low weight; and it also takes aim at the biggest complaint people have about the E3, by adding real drawbars. So for someone looking for a lightweight clonewheel, the SK1 could replace the E3 as top dog. For non-organ use, though, the two offer different trade-offs... the E3 will still have the better non-organ sounds, while the SK1 will have the multi-timbral split function the E3 lacks.

[Boris the Blade]

 

Man if you can, try not to worry too much. I do understand your frustration, been there many times. You WAIT and WAIT and then an instrument like the Nord Electro 3 seasons and you pull the trigger and then 6 months later something and in the immediate ballpark, something rears it's ugly head. Good marketing on both companies no doubt. In Hammond's defense, they have not put anything portable out in a while and nothing ever like this. Give it a year and something else will be here as well and you can have 3 to decide about. Do you have the 61 or 73 key model, and is this being used as an acoustic piano as well or just a second tier organ and some extra sounds. Also Nord's library is vast. Though non of that matters if you are an organ purist or extremest.

 

 

i got the 73 key. i originally got the electro 3 for the organ settings, but after messing around with the pianos i fell in love with that stuff so that is what i have been playing more lately.

 

one thing im not too too fond of on the electro 3 is the drawbars. i dont really mind too much having buttons control the drawbar settings, but has anyone else noticed how the changes in the settings seem quite subtle? on my hammond m3 pulling out drawbars makes quite a difference in sound... anyways, i want to try out these new hammond clones. they look pretty awesome

[DJ RAZZ]

the thing about gear is if you always wait for the next big thing, you'll always be waiting for the next big thing! we have to understand that soon as we buy that piece of gear we want/need, something better will come out 6 months later. So you either live with what you have - is it doing the job you bought it for? - or you sell it and buy the new one. Some people like to trade up every time something new comes out, others hang onto gear for a long time. I figure as long as it's working properly and doing it's job, then I'm OK. I'm pulling the trigger on my first new board since I got my S90ES, and it's not even going to be a new one, I'm getting a used Nord Stage Compact for a good price. It will expand the capability my Electro has by giving me the layering capability and the synth and allow me to play leads from an unweighted keyboard with the pitch stick. I wanted a Kronos or Stage 2 and realized for my needs, I don't have to have all those capabilities. 99% of my use is live- and things like string resonance, damper noise, the lid position will not matter. Full workstation capability like the Kronos will be wasted on what I need live, so while it'd be great to have, it's just not worth it for me to spend the $$ on it right now. Maybe when it's time to replace the S90ES, I can look into a workstation like that.

 

Do you have the Electro 2 or 3? 61 or 73? Will you play 2 or 3 keyboards live?

[DJ RAZZ]

2 nords make a 2 manual organ, pretty cool. One could do a lot with an Electro 3 73 and a Stage compact 73, especially with all the available sample library for the Electro.

[Meatball Fulton]

Hammond has announced the U.S. MAP: $1999 for SK1, $2895 for SK2. :cry:

 

Too expensive for me.

 

Delivery in mid-June.

[dan88z]

Do you have the Electro 2 or 3? 61 or 73? Will you play 2 or 3 keyboards live?

 

 

I have an original Electro 73 that has the last release of the E2 software on it. I use 2 boards live, but with the Stage, I'll be able to cut down to just that board for 1 of my bands. The other band needs too much stuff that the Stage would have a hard time doing- deep layers and splits with sounds the stage can't do. The S90ES will stay on stage for that.

[Strenge]

That piano sounds like it would work for jazz but not so much for rock/pop....of course there may be other patches on there and it is youtube so who knows.

[Evoken13]

Hammond has announced the U.S. MAP: $1999 for SK1, $2895 for SK2.

 

Too expensive for me.

 

Delivery in mid-June.

 

Geez, talk about bursting your bubble.....

I thought this would be around $1,500.

 

I don't get it.....if they are looking to take a chunk of the E3 market, why would they price it pretty much the same as the Nord ? Because it has drawbars???!?

Nord has all of the sounds already well documented/perfected....plus a huge library of additional killer sounds. Are the drawbars really the only swaying factor here?

I guess i'll wait until I see more vids posted because so far, while sounding good for what it is, i'm totally back on the getting a used E3 side.

[AnotherScott]

 

Are the drawbars really the only swaying factor here?

 

Drawbars are a huge advantage to an organ player. But the Hammond also has another big advantage of being multi-timbral (you can split/layer sounds). Also, lots of people think that the Hammond XK-3c organ sound is better than Nord's.

 

At the same $2k price, Nord's biggest advantage is the excellent sample library (and probably the ability to load your own samples... it's unclear, but the SK1 probably doesn't have that). Nord also has the excellent piano library, but acoustic pianos play so poorly from the unweighted keyboard that I think that diminishes that advantage a bit, unless you also have a weighted board that you will be using to trigger them. Though it also has those strong EP sounds. (If you want to pay a bit more, the Nord also has the advantage of being available with alternate keybeds.)

 

So to me, at $2k, if you were only going to gig with a single board, I'd say the SK1 is the better organ (based on the drawbars and probably the sound), and the SK1 is the more flexible gigging board (since you can split and layer sounds)... but you would lose many of Nord's excellent additional sounds.

[fingersg]

Its hard to tell from the Youtube Vid but, the first organ sound, I think was awfull however, the last one, was better but still not stellar. The piano was suprisingly good, minus the strange nervous non-legato playing. The wurli was truly horrendous. Absolutely no mids in the sample, hence no character. If that wurli is representative of the rhodes, they are in trouble. I am a Hammond player and have owned a rhodes in the past but not particularly a nord electro fan. The Nord's EPs are really pretty amazing and it sounds as if the Hammond's EPs aren't cuttin' it. I appreciate Hammonds' use of a muti-timbral engine and I think Nord is being totally stingy with not implementing that on their boards at the electro price point. I know they left that for the stage series. (marketing genius but too expensive).I hope this board shows better in person than on the video.

[suitandtieguy]

so it takes a USB key for WAV files but only a "song player", not soundfonts?

 

what a piece of trash. this is an insult.

 

 

I don't get it.....if they are looking to take a chunk of the E3 market, why would they price it pretty much the same as the Nord ? Because it has drawbars???!?

 

 

that would be enough if it matched the E3 for user sample loading. unfortunately it's the typical Ham-Suz crap where they tease the rim (on this there are drawbars, on the XK3 there are amplitude levels for tones) but don't stick it all the way in (no user samples, no microtuning of tonewheels, no upper/lower split audio output.)

 

on the "new B3" they went as far as a custom-engineered keybed but paid no attention to the actual depth of the original keychannel, so it wound up feeling worse than one of those Yamaha crap machines at Best Buy. same half-assed thinking.

[-groovatious-]

Is it just me or is the actually ORGAN sound thin and plastic?

[dan88z]

Drawbars are a huge advantage to an organ player. But the Hammond also has another big advantage of being multi-timbral (you can split/layer sounds). Also, lots of people think that the Hammond XK-3c organ sound is better than Nord's. At the same $2k price, Nord's biggest advantage is the excellent sample library (and probably the ability to load your own samples... it's unclear, but the SK1 probably doesn't have that). Nord also has the excellent piano library, but acoustic pianos play so poorly from the unweighted keyboard that I think that diminishes that advantage a bit, unless you also have a weighted board that you will be using to trigger them. Though it also has those strong EP sounds. (If you want to pay a bit more, the Nord also has the advantage of being available with alternate keybeds.) So to me, at $2k, if you were only going to gig with a single board, I'd say the SK1 is the better organ (based on the drawbars and probably the sound), and the SK1 is the more flexible gigging board (since you can split and layer sounds)... but you would lose many of Nord's excellent additional sounds.

 

 

We know that many people think that playing the Nord piano sounds from the unweighted keyboard isn't as good as using a weighted controller. How will playing the Hammond piano sounds on an unweighted board be any better? It seems like that is being dismissed in this discussion. The Hammond is offering a board that will seemingly compete well with the Nord but they still have the disadvantage of the unweighted keys for piano.

[AnotherScott]

 

it sounds as if the Hammond's EPs aren't cuttin' it.

 

I agree that that wurlie sounds awful, but I think it's way too soon to dismiss the Hammond EPs. It has 8 Rhodes and 2 Wurlis in it, and all we've heard is a youtube video of one of them.

[AnotherScott]

 

(no user samples, no microtuning of tonewheels, no upper/lower split audio output.)

 

Real tonewheel B3s didn't have these things either.

 

I like user samples, but it's not inherently an organ function, and not something I think every organist needs (and no organ-oriented keyboard has ever had it, except for Nord, and Nord lacks other things, i.e. drawbars, so there's always a trade-off). You could add something like a Blofeld module to get user samples, if you want.

 

Microtuning is interesting, and not something I'm familiar with... are you saying that clones don't match real tonewheel tuning, or that some models have adjustments for this?

 

I'm not sure which clones have the ability to split the upper and lower outputs. I don't really see a need for it, but I'm sure someone does...

[suitandtieguy]

 

Real tonewheel B3s didn't have these things either.

 

 

so?

 

btw, a real organ _can_ split the upper and lower outputs if you're clever.

 

why use this stuff if it doesn't go above and beyond what the real thing does? i'd leave my C2 at home in a heartbeat if a clonewheel was an actual improvement over it.

[dan88z]

Real tonewheel B3s didn't have these things either. I like user samples, but it's not inherently an organ function, and not something I think every organist needs (and no organ-oriented keyboard has ever had it, except for Nord, and Nord lacks other things, i.e. drawbars, so there's always a trade-off). You could add something like a Blofeld module to get user samples, if you want. Microtuning is interesting, and not something I'm familiar with... are you saying that clones don't match real tonewheel tuning, or that some models have adjustments for this? I'm not sure which clones have the ability to split the upper and lower outputs. I don't really see a need for it, but I'm sure someone does...

 

 

The XK3c has a way to adjust the tonewheels. Several clones have different wheel sets to simulate different organ conditions- old leaky ones, new ones, other Hammond models so you can customize to what you like. That wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me, but having that flexibility is nice if you want it. I can see why they didn't include it on the SK, that's a more advanced feature and you don't want to give all your flagship's features in the budget model.