Members rub1off&tie1on Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Is it a pretty noticable change in tone, or will it not even matter much when placed into a full vocal and instrument mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMSnell Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 If your gonna want cranked amp sounds at studio volumes, your gonna want to use an attenuator of some kind otherwise the volume will most likely destroy any studio mic. There will be a noticable tone change, I find that they take off a lot of the top and and give you a darker sound, but im sure that a while fiddling with mid placement/eq's etc will get you the tone you want with one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by AMSnell If your gonna want cranked amp sounds at studio volumes, your gonna want to use an attenuator of some kind otherwise the volume will most likely destroy any studio mic. : Ugh, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMSnell Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Blasting an amp at full volume with a mic 2 inches away will break the mic....wont it?Has every time I tried it in a studio... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by AMSnell Blasting an amp at full volume with a mic 2 inches away will break the mic.... wont it? Has every time I tried it in a studio... dude people have been micing amps at full volume for years!!! Thats not going to blow a mic up. And attenuator will only make your tone worse IMO. If you're abgle to turn your amp up, turn it up. Makes infinitely more sense than using an attenuator IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 And for the record Ive recorded my Superbass full up with the mic right on the grill, let alone two inches away... As well as many, many, many other amps. Ive never heard of a mic blowing up from micing a speaker cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Digital Jams Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by AMSnell If your gonna want cranked amp sounds at studio volumes, your gonna want to use an attenuator of some kind otherwise the volume will most likely destroy any studio mic. There will be a noticable tone change, I find that they take off a lot of the top and and give you a darker sound, but im sure that a while fiddling with mid placement/eq's etc will get you the tone you want with one HAve to disagree with you on several fronts here, Ed Degenero posted comparison clips using a THD Hotplate going through the different levels and also one with the unit out of the loop and everyone's answers were all over the place.Also EVH had everything dimed in the studio....dimed Plexi that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMSnell Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Me = P0wn3d pardon the ignorance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by Digital Jams HAve to disagree with you on several fronts here, Ed Degenero posted comparison clips using a THD Hotplate going through the different levels and also one with the unit out of the loop and everyone's answers were all over the place. Also EVH had everything dimed in the studio....dimed Plexi that is Actually I agree with an Attenuator darkening the tone a bit, compressing it as well. The hotplate always did that with my amps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Digital Jams Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by telephant Actually I agree with an Attenuator darkening the tone a bit, compressing it as well. The hotplate always did that with my amps... Then get off your arse and re eq gimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by Digital Jams Then get off your arse and re eq gimp Well of course. That doesnt change the fact that an attenuator will change the tone of your amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rub1off&tie1on Posted January 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Well i live in an apt. so cranking my amp is totally out of the question. So what i'm asking is how much better would cranked amp w/ attenuator vs. just using the master volume on my amps sound in a final mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Digital Jams Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Well what do you have for an amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMSnell Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by rub1off&tie1on Well i live in an apt. so cranking my amp is totally out of the question. So what i'm asking is how much better would cranked amp w/ attenuator vs. just using the master volume on my amps sound in a final mix? Better imo You will get the gain and saturation from the power section which you wont with just the master volume, as its turning the pre-amp volume down before it hits the power section, thus not giving it enough oomph to drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StevieRaveOn Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 From the Shure Website: Realistic Maximum Sound Pressure Levels for Dynamic Microphones Microphone users often ask "What is the maximum sound pressure level that a dynamic microphone can handle without distortion?" Using the Shure SM58 as an example of a typical dynamic microphone, Shure Engineering performed experiments to answer this question. Like most technical matters, the answer is not simple. As a point of reference, 140 dB SPL is the accepted threshold of pain for the human ear. The maximum sound pressure level (max SPL) from a human voice as measured by Shure is 135 dB SPL at 1 inch from the mouth. A kick drum played very loudly may exceed 140 dB SPL, but has never been measured by Shure above 150 dB SPL. The loudest orchestral instrument, a trumpet, can theoretically produce a MAX SPL of 155 dB SPL at 1 inch, but only in its upper register. Note that the distribution of energy (sound pressure) in speech, music, and noise is dependent on the frequency. For example, the human voice does not produce much energy below 100 Hz and its frequency of MAX SPL would be higher than 100 Hz. Exactly how much higher depends on the individual voice. Unlike a condenser microphone which has internal electronics that may overload, a dynamic microphone distorts when its diaphragm hits a physical barrier, like the magnetic pole piece, and can move no further. The excursion of the diaphragm is frequency dependent and the excursion is greatest at the resonant frequency of the diaphragm. Therefore, the MAX SPL of a dynamic microphone like the SM58 is frequency dependent. This means that low frequencies will produce distortion at a lower SPL than higher frequencies. For the SM58, the frequency range to first exhibit distortion is centered around 100 Hz, close to the resonant frequency of the microphone's diaphragm. At 100 Hz, the measured MAX SPL is 150 dB SPL and the electrical output of the microphone is 0 dB V or 1.0 volts. Note this is a line level signal, not a mic level signal. In the 1 kHz range, the SM58 measured MAX SPL is about 160 dB SPL due to the change in microphone sensitivity at the higher frequencies. The electrical output of the microphone at 160 dB SPL is +10 dBV or 3.2 volts. In the 10 kHz range, 180 dB SPL is the MAX SPL of the SM58. However, this is a calculated measurement as Shure Engineering had no means to create such enormous and dangerous SPL. For comparison, NASA reports that a space shuttle launch measures 180 dB SPL and higher at 10 meters. In the 20 kHz range, the MAX SPL is calculated to be around 190, due to the response falloff of the SM58. But now the point of absurdity has been reached because at 194 dB SPL the sound pressure varies from twice normal atmospheric pressure (at the wave peak) to a total vacuum (at the wave trough). Plus the sound source must be moving at the speed of sound just to generate a wave of this intensity. In summary, a well-designed dynamic microphone of professional quality will never reach its distortion point in "normal" conditions. If one does encounter distortion when using a professional dynamic microphone for an extremely loud source, it is most likely that the electrical output of the microphone is clipping the input of the microphone preamplifier. [Remember that at 150 dB SPL, the SM58 will provide a line level output!] To solve this problem, an in-line attenuator ("pad") must be placed before the preamplifier input, or the microphone must be moved farther from the sound source. In general, the sound pressure level will decrease 6 dB for each doubling of the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by AMSnell Better imo You will get the gain and saturation from the power section which you wont with just the master volume, as its turning the pre-amp volume down before it hits the power section, thus not giving it enough oomph to drive it. See it depends IMO. If he has a master volume high gain amp it will sound like complete ass with an attenuator. Why? because its all preamp gain. Why would you want to overdrive the power section of a primarily preamp gain amp? Now if were talking an old marshall here or something thats totally different because it needs to be turned up to actually get gain... But using a hotplate with something like a VH4 is just retarded IMO. I cant even answer the question properly without knowing what type of amp it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members code_blue Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 This place kind of seems like a "know it all" contest sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by code_blue This place kind of seems like a "know it all" contest sometimes... How's that? Because Im trying not to give out misinformation? Or should I just standby and let mother{censored}ers think you can actually blow up mics from micing guitar cabs? Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members code_blue Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by telephant How's that? Because Im trying not to give out misinformation? Or should I just standby and let mother{censored}ers think you can actually blow up mics from micing guitar cabs? Give me a break. That wasn't directed at you, but if you wanna cry about it...Its the way you go about it, like just now, calling him a "mother{censored}er" when all he was doing was trying to help.A lot of people won't even help around here unless they can correct someone else in a snotty way while doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Digital Jams Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by code_blue This place kind of seems like a "know it all" contest sometimes... You still trying to figure out what makes a good graphics card yet on a metal head forum???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverDriven Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by AMSnell If your gonna want cranked amp sounds at studio volumes, your gonna want to use an attenuator of some kind otherwise the volume will most likely destroy any studio mic. The only case I can see this happening in is if you use a large diaphragm condenser mic very close to the cab. LDC's aren't used for close micing though, and are usually backed off of the cab by several feet to capture a more roomy sound that can be mixed in with a close miced dynamic mic. So no...destroying a mic shouldn't be a concern. Personally I would never use an attenuator in the studio. They tend to suck tone. Crank the amp all the way, and if you can't do that then you are in the wrong studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by OverDriven Personally I would never use an attenuator in the studio. They tend to suck tone. Crank the amp all the way, and if you can't do that then you are in the wrong studio. Werd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by code_blue That wasn't directed at you, but if you wanna cry about it... Its the way you go about it, like just now, calling him a "mother{censored}er" when all he was doing was trying to help. A lot of people won't even help around here unless they can correct someone else in a snotty way while doing it. Mother{censored}er was used in jest and if that wasnt obvious I dont know what to tell you. As for the rest of that, I think you're full of {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rub1off&tie1on Posted January 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 I've got two, a Laney AOR series II 50watt head and a Rivera Hundred Duo 12. The Laney i just plug into the lower gain channel and slam it with an overdrive pedal, the Rivera i run clean, clean with overdrives, or straight into the Marshally channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members code_blue Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by Digital Jams You still trying to figure out what makes a good graphics card yet on a metal head forum???? No, because when I asked on here I got an answer.*duh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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