Members McHale Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 I have two problems with KRONOS. (1) The absence of on-board pads. After they included direct support for this in 1.5, I'm GLAD they didn't give us physical pads. I can do a LOT more with this and they are CHEAP: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sir Cecil Figg Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 After they included direct support for this in 1.5, I'm GLAD they didn't give us physical pads. I can do a LOT more with this and they are CHEAP: Are the chords already integrated into those pads like they are in the M3? Or do you first have to assign the chords? The M3 pads are a great learning tool because of the way the chords are already assigned. You go to the Karma RTC screen, touch the pad and you see the chord it's playing & the name of the chord. Another learning tool are the chord changes when I move from pad-to-pad There are transitions I never would have dreamed of. I actually have a notebook for the M3 and I'm writing this stuff down by hand. It's so useful. So if you have to assign the chords yourself on KRONOS & Nano-pad, it's a step down from the M3 AFAIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 The Kronos auto assigns the top 8 pads to the same as what you had on the M3 by default. The bottom 8 pads you can set to anything you want. Mine are set to various CC#'s. AWESOME. And if you recall with the M3, some complained about pads sticking and they had to get them serviced. That will never be an issue with these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 I have a Motif XF, Jupiter 80 and a Kronos and the best "sounding" (but most limited) is certainly the JP80, the easiest to live with is the Motif and the Kronos does the most stuff ... toss a coin three ways really and there is no real loser only degree's of winning.Do you do a lot of programming at all, or mostly just use the presets? I'm just asking because that is usually something that will mean how much one values the Kronos. Oh how I wish I had one just to get into that MOD-7 engine (after I spent enough time playing the pianos and EPs ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members minimoog Posted February 3, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 I asked a Pro keyboard player what made it so great in terms of sound. said " it depends on you taste" ...... o well. .. well good logo thing " game changer" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Citizen Klaus Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 The Kronos auto assigns the top 8 pads to the same as what you had on the M3 by default. The bottom 8 pads you can set to anything you want. Mine are set to various CC#'s. AWESOME. And if you recall with the M3, some complained about pads sticking and they had to get them serviced. That will never be an issue with these. Not to stray too far off topic, but how's the sensitivity of the pads on the nanopad 2? I tried the first-gen nanopad once, but I think I got a defective unit -- even with the drivers properly installed, 11 of the 12 pads didn't respond at all, and the one that did only transmitted a maximum velocity of ~50, no matter how hard I wailed on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members realtrance Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 I know others complain about how loud it is. Either I've gotten so old my hearing is shot or I don't hear it at all once it's booted up. And I mean, AT ALL - even when I'm not playing. I'm past the "what else does this thing do" stage and am just enjoying creating sounds and playing it. It's a monster and nothing compares to it right now. I have been meaning to put up some demo videos of some "thinking outside the box" things I'm doing with it that I'm sure nobody's done yet but have been too busy the past few months with family matters. By the way, the demo videos will demonstrate something different, though maybe not useful to anyone but me. I'm good for figuring out things that nobody cares about. -Mc Just for the sheer sake of expediency and simplicity in my life, I'd _love_ to embrace Kronos and get rid of a bunch of other stuff; it came pretty close to convincing me, both in terms of sound and features (nothing is perfect, and every synth I've ever owned or heard about has had minor issues of one sort or another). Just not there yet, I guess, so the little nits still help to stop me. One word strongly in favor of Kronos, though: like digital software synthesis, the full-scale integration of a lot of things you'd normally have to "patch together" yourself not only has massive convenience appeal, it does, I think, get a lot of the technicalities out of the way so that you can get to making music and enjoying synthesis and recording more immediately, with less fuss and bother. That cannot be underrated. Even the little stupid things, like in my case figuring out why Novation's Automap software doesn't like a legacy USB device I have on a separate port from the port I'm connecting my Ultranova to, and thus completely locks up the system and the DAW software (Sonar) necessitating a reboot (well, until I understood that I'm now in either/or land, get rid of the legacy USB device if I want to use the Ultranova via USB for MIDI)....... you find an instrument that solves _all_ those problems in the box so you don't waste days and parts of your cardiovascular system and tufts of your hair having to deal with it, and..... bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 Apart from the obvious build quality issues with the keybed, fan and joystick (and the general lower rent feel of the build quality compared to say a Motif or a Fantom) my view of the Kronos has been its a additional tool that has the advantage of doing everything. It only does two of those things well better then any other workstation (EP's and Organs) but everything else its close enough. I have a Motif XF, Jupiter 80 and a Kronos and the best "sounding" (but most limited) is certainly the JP80, the easiest to live with is the Motif and the Kronos does the most stuff ... toss a coin three ways really and there is no real loser only degree's of winning. HD-1, AL-1, MOD-7, MS-20EX, PolysixEX, STR-1? Perhaps the JP80 has something like AL-1 and the Motif and maybe the JP80 both have something like HD-1 (sorta), but what about the other four? MOD-7 is far more than a rehash of a DX-7 and STR-1 is not just a guitar simulator, though that seems to be the type of thing it was aimed/marketed at initially and on which most of the factory patches concentrate. It is a physical modeling synthesizer engine and I think we may see more people programming it as such as time progresses. Also, the two classic analog simulators are fun to program and to play and sound excellent as well. If I wanted to, I could spend all of my time doing nothing but experimenting with creating sounds with those synths. One obvious "issue" (if you can call it that) with MOD-7 and STR-1 is that they are very complex and require much work for generating interesting and different sounds. There are tutorials in the parameter guide for both, but STR-1 in particular could use much more in the way of tutorials and examples. To me the integrated sequencer is probably the least interesting thing in the Kronos. I tried to express that in Korg's recent workstation survey (the one that Rich F posted here a while ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 Last I knew, the JP80 was not an integrated workstation. Plus I don't care much for the organs and the EP's. For a $3000 keyboard, it has to be strong in those 2 categories. While Yamaha has a massive sound library, I don't see/hear a substantial improvement in todays XF vs the original Motif from 2001. I use to own the XS7. So far, Korg, with the Kronos, is the only company that has seriously upped the ante for a top notch workstation at $3000. Is it possible that Roland and Yamaha has hit the wall in producing a state of the art $3000 workstation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 Not to stray too far off topic, but how's the sensitivity of the pads on the nanopad 2? I tried the first-gen nanopad once, but I think I got a defective unit -- even with the drivers properly installed, 11 of the 12 pads didn't respond at all, and the one that did only transmitted a maximum velocity of ~50, no matter how hard I wailed on it. the internals between the nanoPad and nanoPad 2 are completely different. The new one has such a better and more reliable design. It's almost exactly like the M3 pads. I'm very, very happy with them. the original reason I bought the nanoPad 2 was because it had 8 pads on the top instead of the 6. Now that I've torn both types apart, there's no question that the nanoPad 2 is a huge improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Citizen Klaus Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 the internals between the nanoPad and nanoPad 2 are completely different. The new one has such a better and more reliable design. It's almost exactly like the M3 pads. I'm very, very happy with them. the original reason I bought the nanoPad 2 was because it had 8 pads on the top instead of the 6. Now that I've torn both types apart, there's no question that the nanoPad 2 is a huge improvement. Good to hear. Ever since I learned that you could Kaossilate using the nanoPad 2's X-Y pad, I've been captivated by it. But my experiences with the 1st-gen version have made me a bit reluctant to jump in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Boxed Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 It has the Korg sound. Maybe better than the Triton but still in the same ball park. Too expensive for what it is, a subnotebook powered by an Atom processor with a tweaked Linux, that is 200 dollars for the computer and 2800 dollars for the software and keyboard. Tell me how is that any different from your V-Synths, Kurzweils, Jupiter 80s, Fantoms and Motif XFs? With their dated DSPs and lesser feature sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 Good to hear. Ever since I learned that you could Kaossilate using the nanoPad 2's X-Y pad, I've been captivated by it. But my experiences with the 1st-gen version have made me a bit reluctant to jump in. there are a bunch of repair videos on the original nanoPAD. You should check one out so you can see WHAT the issue is and how it was designed. If you want, I can tear mine apart and post some pics so you can see the new design. As far as the XY pad, I suppose it's theoretically possible but I haven't figured out how to change any parameters for it. It's a surprise what it will do every time I use it! But it DOES do something, the top 8 pads are autoconfigured for the chord buttons and the bottom 8 are free to do with whatever you want. It was one of my favorite enhancements with 1.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Citizen Klaus Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 there are a bunch of repair videos on the original nanoPAD. You should check one out so you can see WHAT the issue is and how it was designed. If you want, I can tear mine apart and post some pics so you can see the new design. I'll take your word for it, especially since it meshes with comments I've seen elsewhere about the nanoPad 2. Good to hear that it's a properly different design, though. As far as the XY pad, I suppose it's theoretically possible but I haven't figured out how to change any parameters for it. It's a surprise what it will do every time I use it! But it DOES do something, the top 8 pads are autoconfigured for the chord buttons and the bottom 8 are free to do with whatever you want. It was one of my favorite enhancements with 1.5. IIRC, the "Touch Scale" button should activate the Kaossilator functionality for the X-Y pad. Then, if you hold down "Scale/Tap" while pressing one of the pads, you can set the scale for the X-Y controller. Similarly, the same process while holding down "Key/Range" sets the key, the note range, and allows you to octave-shift. Unless you meant that the X-Y pad doesn't produce a consistent response. I had that issue with the 1st-gen nanoPad -- sometimes the X-Y controller would work, and sometimes it wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 IIRC, the "Touch Scale" button should activate the Kaossilator functionality for the X-Y pad. Then, if you hold down "Scale/Tap" while pressing one of the pads, you can set the scale for the X-Y controller. Similarly, the same process while holding down "Key/Range" sets the key, the note range, and allows you to octave-shift.Unless you meant that the X-Y pad doesn't produce a consistent response. I had that issue with the 1st-gen nanoPad -- sometimes the X-Y controller would work, and sometimes it wouldn't. I hadn't seen all those button assignments. I'll try them out tonight. What I meant was, the XY pad is set for different things on every patch so one time it may be pitch, on another patch it may be effects, on another it could be filter cutoff. The XY pad is consistent in use, just never sure of the function but your info helps. I'd love to be able to have 2 different XY functions (the pad and the vector joystick). -Mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 I also play guitar, but currently bringing a whole guitar rig for a few spots on the gig isn't practical. So the keyboard patches have to make due. We all know there are limits on how "Real" something like a guitar can sound sampled, but IMO it comes down to who's set the bar. Workstation wise, I'd say Yamaha has with their motif series. At least with the acoustics. If you voice and arpeggiate your chords correctly, it's very convincing IMO. Distortion sounds have always been harder, but again I think the Motif does a better job. As a guitar player, I can hear they got the attack "right" or at least closer than most. Do the Kronos guitars sound like real guitars? I suppose, but really badly recorded ones. They've still got that GM feel to me. We saw an example above where when the guy is wailing away the deficiencies of the samples can be masked and it sounds like poorly recorded guitars. If you play something slow and expressive, it falls apart. I really wish Korg would open up the sample streaming to users because as a Guitar Player, I'd roll my own! No I'm not kidding! Though the current form requires looping to be done. Which do do correctly is a VERY LONG and tedious process which I'm not up for. Using long samples would take up too much RAM without streaming. Bottom line for me: A new workstation should have ANY part of it's soundset bested by another board that's 5 years old. I'd bet the Kronos guitars are the same ones form the OASYS from 2005. Which who knows could be from a previous workstation still if they decided it wasn't important at the time. Not Cool. At least IMO. So there's *MY* answer Interesting. Thanks for sharing your perspective with a good amount of detail.I'd hate to have to cover guitar parts on keys without a guitar, but if the bandleader handed me a Kronos and told me to get to work, I'd focus heavily on ways to integrate the STR-1 string modeller with the guitar samples. Maybe a simple Combi which layers STR-1 and samples would do the trick. I was supposed to try a similar idea on my EXB-RADIAS equipped M3 - layer the Radias's VPM piano with rompler electric piano for a hybrid e-piano sound - combining the sampled tones with the more life-like, yet more synthetic sounding behavior of the Radias engine. But other projects got in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 I asked a Pro keyboard player what made it so great in terms of sound. said " it depends on you taste" ...... He told you the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 If you want, I can tear (my Nanopad-2) apart and post some pics so you can see the new design.I'd enjoy seeing those pics. I"m always up for a good geek thread. Do you think the pads are more sensitive than the ones in the original model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DrPopper Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Do you do a lot of programming at all, or mostly just use the presets? I'm just asking because that is usually something that will mean how much one values the Kronos. Oh how I wish I had one just to get into that MOD-7 engine (after I spent enough time playing the pianos and EPs ). Mostly programming the Synth's (although a few need nothing especially strings and basses) the acoustic stuff I might tweak a bit here and there but its usually pretty much bang on the money in the presets. The EP's and Organs require a lot of work for playing live but record acceptably well (not as nice as Kronos or a Nord Stage 2). I find the Kronos useful mainly for the Synth's and the Karma Combi's but the Motif's pretty good in that area as well.What's unusual about the JP-80 is you can if you forget all the other stuff simply treat it as a 27 Oscillator VA synth and then its simply the best sounding synth on the market .... I don't think the Kronos VA engines offer that same quality of sound but lets face it we are all just nit picking... all of these boards are fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'd enjoy seeing those pics. I"m always up for a good geek thread. Do you think the pads are more sensitive than the ones in the original model? I really can't say if they are more sensitive than the original model because I only tore one apart just to tear one apart. But I do know that this one is designed better and it works well. It shouldn't have the same problems the original had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 That's great. So the the Nanopad 2 makes the pads as functional as they are on the M3. What about pad sensitivity settings? You can tweak that on an M3. Can you do that on the KRONOS also? Or do you just buy a new Nanopad? I haven't found any sensitivity settings but I don't see it being an issue based on the design. The pads are SOLID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 IIRC, the "Touch Scale" button should activate the Kaossilator functionality for the X-Y pad. Then, if you hold down "Scale/Tap" while pressing one of the pads, you can set the scale for the X-Y controller. Similarly, the same process while holding down "Key/Range" sets the key, the note range, and allows you to octave-shift. Yep! Works exactly like you said it would. I never played with the buttons. Pretty cool. THANKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BonsoWonderDog Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Looks like a great keyboard to me.....I'd buy one if I could justify the $$'s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BonsoWonderDog Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 i've got plenty of schwag so you can fake-represent a lot of companies. Vestax, maudio, audix, korg, i think a roland one somewhere. i'm trying not to wear my Korg shirt too much though, since you apparently cannot get them anymore. unfortunate. boy thats an old picture.. Jason, you can get any shirt printed with whatever you want sent in 2 days from a bunch of different interwebz........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 ...Geekpic...Woah, that was fast! Good pic too. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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