Members donaldcrunk Posted April 23, 2012 Members Share Posted April 23, 2012 i too have been fortunate enough to witness a shuttle launch when i was young in Florida, as well as a non-shuttle launch from the west coast much later in life. both were major events for me. i have nothing to add that hasn't been said already, except perhaps to remind you gentlemen that there is in fact an unmanned system currently soaring over our heads, intended as a space shuttle replacement by certain sectors. it is the ever-so-mysterious X37b - it's been over our heads for about a year, with very little fanfair. between the USAF's obvious interest in maintaining it's primacy in space + the exciting commercial ventures that are beginning to come online, the prospects for democratized space flight in the 21st century are still good in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members terrellmiller Posted April 23, 2012 Members Share Posted April 23, 2012 What? You commented space exploration was relegated to trivial "tourist joyrides" then you are upset at a group turning space exploration into a more comprehensive and self-sustaining venture. I guess every action can be painted with a coat of evil intent if you try hard enough. this is the first I've ever heard of any private-venture plans for more than ISS ferries, joyrides and space hotels.This is a massive departure from prior business models. The "more comprehensive and self-sustaining venture" breaks a longstanding outer space treaty that recognizes that borders exist on Earth, not is space. That includes property lines as well as political borders. The point of that treaty was to prevent a nation or organization from claiming exclusive rights to land and resources in space. This new business model is a massive FU to that principle, it's a consortium of large companies wanting to go into space, take whatever resources they can grab, and use them for their own financial gain to the exclusion of others. This is bad, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted April 23, 2012 Members Share Posted April 23, 2012 this is the first I've ever heard of any private-venture plans for more than ISS ferries, joyrides and space hotels.This is a massive departure from prior business models.The "more comprehensive and self-sustaining venture" breaks a longstanding outer space treaty that recognizes that borders exist on Earth, not is space. That includes property lines as well as political borders.The point of that treaty was to prevent a nation or organization from claiming exclusive rights to land and resources in space. This new business model is a massive FU to that principle, it's a consortium of large companies wanting to go into space, take whatever resources they can grab, and use them for their own financial gain to the exclusion of others.This is bad, folks. This reads like a real life version of a technical science fiction novel. I am sort of thinking out loud in written form... so I am not really sure where this is going to go but... I agree with you in principal. In a perfect world we would have the people of the earth give permission via some sort of process that has some sort of semblance of fairness and acquisition of input from as many folks as possible. In the real world, the cynic in me says that this sort of thing would never happen within a reasonable time frame (whatever that means - to me it means before I kick the bucket since in my belief system it is all over then). World governments would argue over it for years. The extreme cynic in may is whispering nastily in my ear that most people on the planet do not have the intelligence and/or education to understand what is going on, what it takes to put a satellite or vehicle into orbit, communicate and control it remotely, and keep it there safely, or what it would take to put a vehicle on an asteroid or the moon with the purpose of mining stuff and bringing it back. Since they don't have the understanding and/or education, they don't have the qualifications to intelligently elect representatives who would meet in a world forum and change the international treaties appropriately (or not). The scientist and engineer in my says that we need something new happening to advance and protect the planet and our species (if that matters). We need natural resources and at some point we might even need a new place to settle. It also says that we need something to stimulate the world economy. It says we may be dealing with something on a new scale that will enhance our quality of life and in particular the massively deteriorated quality of life and social standing relative to the education and experience of academic and in particular industrial scientists and engineers (pure greed on my part sorry). The adventurer in me says hell yeah go do it. I volunteer for a one-way trip to Mars if that is needed. I would love to just experience it - even if it kills me ultimately. My wife and kids might have something else to say about that and it is an extremely selfish thing to think/say, but in reality I know it would never happen to me. Also sometimes things have to happen first and then have government respond afterwards with regulation and treaties. Just because a company can send something out into space does not necessarily mean that they can bring something back... I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BonsoWonderDog Posted April 23, 2012 Members Share Posted April 23, 2012 Since they don't have the understanding and/or education, they don't have the qualifications to intelligently elect representatives who would meet in a world forum and change the international treaties appropriately (or not). With all due respect, that's bollocks. That's like saying someone who doesn't understand how an combustion engine works should not be allowed to drive a car. It says we may be dealing with something on a new scale that will enhance our quality of life and in particular the massively deteriorated quality of life and social standing relative to the education and experience of academic and in particular industrial scientists and engineers (pure greed on my part sorry). Seriously? I'd say if you compare quality of life now to decades ago you would find quite the opposite of "massively deteriorated". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted April 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BonsoWonderDog Posted April 24, 2012 Members Share Posted April 24, 2012 Don't get comfortable Doug.......I don't intend on continuing the discussion :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted April 24, 2012 Members Share Posted April 24, 2012 this is the first I've ever heard of any private-venture plans for more than ISS ferries, joyrides and space hotels.This is a massive departure from prior business models.I'll go out on a limb and predict that the business model will be to peddle moonbeams in a jar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BonsoWonderDog Posted April 24, 2012 Members Share Posted April 24, 2012 How much for a six-pack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted April 24, 2012 Members Share Posted April 24, 2012 Special introductory price: One bucket of palladium. Or a tribble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BonsoWonderDog Posted April 24, 2012 Members Share Posted April 24, 2012 If you throw in your suspended ceiling, you're on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted April 24, 2012 Members Share Posted April 24, 2012 Sorry, I can't go that high. I'm afraid you're talking over my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted April 24, 2012 Members Share Posted April 24, 2012 Don't get comfortable Doug.......I don't intend on continuing the discussion :-) Yeah me neither. I was pretty damned cranky yesterday... still am... basically just hating most of humanity. I am a fungible resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zoink Posted April 24, 2012 Members Share Posted April 24, 2012 Yeah me neither. I was pretty damned cranky yesterday... still am... basically just hating most of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted April 24, 2012 Members Share Posted April 24, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BonsoWonderDog Posted April 25, 2012 Members Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yeah me neither. I was pretty damned cranky yesterday... still am... basically just hating most of humanity. I am a fungible resource. Hugs for Gribs !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted April 25, 2012 Members Share Posted April 25, 2012 Hugs for Gribs !!! No thanks, he haz teh fungible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted April 25, 2012 Members Share Posted April 25, 2012 Just some quick links: Planetary Resources web site Interesting commentary in Forbes with other links - an amusing read for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members willi Posted April 25, 2012 Members Share Posted April 25, 2012 Isn't it a bit daft to grant the UN rights as governing body of the entire universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gregwar Posted April 25, 2012 Members Share Posted April 25, 2012 it is sad in a way that they're canceling wo/manned space missions. the pundits say the youth haven't been 'inspired' to follow science, etc because people aren't flying to space or whatevs. IMHO this is rediculous because when I took phys, chem, bio, etc enrollment was through the roof and very competitive. the future whiz kids respond to and are engaged by different stimuli. I tried out for the mars rover team at my university and couldn't get in with vanilla science because the students that did robotics, computer science etc obviously had first dibs. our undergrad team came in second vs MIT, Stanford, etc masters and phd students and were beyond obsessed with it. the future of space research is in robotics, comp sci and huble telescope style astronomy not astronaughts IMHO. just out of curiosity what purpose would there be for NASA to send more people into space ? my brother worked in a very high end spectroscopy lab for a summer in his undergrad blasting retinal tissue with lasers. the experimental material chemists would come to him to test various long distance space materials. what I'm trying to say is the dream isn't dead it's just in a different form now it just makes more sense to me to send rich early adopters in private shuttles and then gradually reduce the cost for tourists. then if they want to go further and set up colonies NASA hasn't exactly followed through and prolly can't deliver. even with unlimited funds large centralized gov't orgs aren't hotbeds of innovation. too much red tape, protocol, etc make otherwise smart people act stupid, again IMHO btw is james cameron looking for unobtainium wtfbbqlol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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