Why Kurzweil will slowly die (terrible customer service story)

[suitandtieguy]

hey i'm sorry but at least i admit it.

 

bad UI is poison to me.

[evildragon]

Well, if you're used to eye candy, nobody can blame you. But Kurzweil's UI and getting around it is really fast and functional. Just probably not something you're used to. It's really not bad. It's just monochromatic!

[zzzxtreme]

it's pretty easy to create performances in pc3le6, easier than motif XS despite the latter's larger screen. hopefully they will further improve their QC, in which itself is an expensive process

[suitandtieguy]

the sarcastic side of me wants to type "yeah i'm just a little too addicted to eye candy" but the reasonable side of me that hates sarcasm won't let me do it.

 

i don't think the problem with Kurzweil's UI problem is that it doesn't have a colour screen like the Fantom but just because it's SOOOO deep and when i watch videos of people programming K-stuff on U-toob it makes my brain hurt.

[evildragon]

Eheh, then it's definitely not your cup of tea unfortunately. Myself I'm different - instead of my brain hurting, those kinds of videos kinda tickle and inspire my brain to do something similar or even wackier.

[suitandtieguy]

i'm not saying what VAST can do doesn't interest me, what i'm saying is that the way you have to do it makes me not care.

[evildragon]

Oh well. I am very positive that the K-series successor will have UI and UX up to modern standards. Perhaps taking a look then might change how you feel about Kurzweil in general.

[lupene]

K-series successor ?????

 

they cant make rom update ,and u talk about new top workstation ....

how loong they work on it 2010 they say winter 12 month now is ???

 

k-series LOL

[Dave Weiser]

 

I'm mostly a reader here but have to get this off my chest. I've always liked the Kurz sound. When my wife said she wanted a digital piano, the new "X-Pro" models were coming out -- so there were great prices on the discontinued Mark Pro 3i (which basically has the PC2 soundset, *with* Orchestra board!). So I found one of the clearance units from an online retailer and bought it. (BTW, I live in Munich.) Problem 1: They sent me the shipping confirmation, and there was only one box weighing 38kg. The specs say 70+kg, and I know DPs usually ship in two big boxes (one for the stand, the other for the keyboard unit). I asked them about this. Whoops, they forgot to send the keyboard box. So for a almost 2 weeks, I had a lovely polished ebony digital piano stand, with no piano. And *I* was the one to notice the error before the first box even arrived. Problem 2: Just that would have been OK, but when I finally received the piano box, and opened it... it was the wrong color. There are only 2 colors - polished ebony and satin rosewood. And they sent the wrong one. It took a week before they picked up the wrong box (the monster was sitting my hallway taking up a copious amount of space). Of course, they did not bring the right unit at this time -- just picked up the wrong one. It took another week for the right color to arrive. At this point, either my wife or I have taken time either to come home from work to meet DHL, or worked from home (not ideal) to make sure we were there FOUR TIMES. - receive shipment of the stand - receive shipment of the wrong piano unit - give the wrong piano unit back to DHL - receive the right piano unit 3) Unfortunately, it gets worse. When I finally put the dp on the stand, the unit would not initialize. I made a video and posted it to YouTube to confirm with the retailer and Kurzweil. It's a boring few minutes of nothing happening. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etVVwqEGTxg&context=C4cb90f1ADvjVQa1PpcFN5WsGqX0oEp8MGHvvoupI5wwevUd4_zqM= So I asked for yet another replacement, and what did Kurzweil say? "We no longer trust the remaining units in stock. But you could send it in for repair and we'll fix the one you have." I'm an engineer, and know that originally faulty units fail a LOT more. The admitted crappy quality, and did not even offer a discount. PLUS, I had already recycled the big box with for the stand, so I have to spend 2 hours this Sunday disassembling the pieces and trying to wrap it. In the end, NO compensation was offered to me. I spend many hours of my time and was basically a warehouse for defective products for almost 2 months. Ironically, if they had said "we're really sorry.... we know that new models are almost 2x the price, but how about 250 Euro off the X-Pro Upright?)... I might had tried it. (It has the PC3 engine, so pretty tempting with a discount proportional to my pain.) At this point, Kurzweil is in a tough competitive position. This is NOT how you gain and keep customers. End rant. Have a nice Sunday.

 

 

 

Greetings from Kurzweil R&D,

Very sorry to hear about the problems and headaches.

 

Once in a while we might have problems with a unit - like the Mark Pro 3- but we do always make an effort to take care of customers when we find out about problems.

I am only learning about your problems right now, so I'm sorry that you'd had to suffer this long.

 

Please send me an email with all of your information and I'll work with the German distributor to try to make things right for you.

davew@ycrdi.com

 

[And if anyone else ever has a Kurz related problem, contact me ASAP and I'll help sort you out.]

 

Dave Weiser

Kurzweil R&D

[Crazyfoo]

 

Dave Weiser Kurzweil R&D

 

 

I would humbly request that Kurzweil send, not one, but two smoking hot female representatives to my house to 'dust of my keys' for me.

You know, as a show of good faith that you really care about your customers.

[evildragon]

 

K-series successor ????? they cant make rom update ,and u talk about new top workstation .... how loong they work on it 2010 they say winter 12 month now is ??? k-series LOL

 

 

 

They are working on multiple projects at once, it is not impossible at all, you know? ROM is finished (so much about "they can't make the ROM update") and as Dave mentioned elsewhere is expected to release at the end of May. So why so bitter?

 

 

I can assure you Kurzweil has indeed been working on K-series successor for quite a long while now. PC3 was just one milestone in that process.

[lupene]

if u say so ....

 

but they say in 2010 "it was finished", than 2011 ,than now

still nothing from it ,it's just fact no bitter in it

 

i hope they work on next k ,and to be soon....

 

but how fast they are with rom ,we can see next k in 2020+ year

[zoink]

 

They are working on multiple projects at once, it is not impossible at all, you know? ROM is finished (so much about "they can't make the ROM update") and as Dave mentioned elsewhere is expected to release at the end of May. So why so bitter? I can assure you Kurzweil has indeed been working on K-series successor for quite a long while now. PC3 was just one milestone in that process.

 

 

I like Kurzweil and own a fair amount of their gear, but that said, I wish they would finish one thing as promised before starting another. My PC3X has two expansion slots, and now I find that they're only ever going to release one expansion ROM, which is itself quite long in coming. It doesn't make me want to hate Kurzweil or anticipate their demise as a company, but I hope Kurzweil realizes that the musicians who have stood by them for 20+ years don't like to be left high and dry.

 

I also understand how aggravating it can be when you're one of those customers who falls between the cracks and receives a bad unit from an otherwise good company, and then for whatever reason, they continue to drop the ball. It begins to look like they just don't care about fixing the problem. I had a similar issue recently with Arturia, and to be honest, if I NEVER have to deal with Arturia's customer service again it'll be too soon.

[Devnor]

Nothing says progress like the release of a new ROM bank. Wake me up if/when it finally comes out ;p

[dreamstasis80]

Hey, jumping in on the conversation, I think the original poster and I have share some common experiences. I've used kurzweils since 1998 when I bought a K2v+ (61 note sampling k2000)...I made a lot of great music with that machine over the course of the 10 or so years that I owned it....I have since upgraded to a K2661, as well as a Yamaha Motif XS8, and now I own a MOX8 which replaces my now sold XS...but my gear history does include a PC3 story...and I was wondering something about the sequencing on the PC3 series...I actually had bought a PC3 (the 61 note board I forget the exact model name) but when it was delivered I received the 76 note version...I had to repackage everything, and order a mailing label from the retailer, then the delivery people dropped the unit upon pickup cracking the housing so I had to query the insurance companies etc., yecch, and all the while Kurzweil was unable to answer my questions about the sequencer functionality when I inquired to customer support ...I was hacked! I ended up returning the board and buying a used K2661 (which is a killer K though mine had some bugs) and a discounted Akai MPC5000 for the cost of the then new PC3.

 

So on to the question section of this post: During the brief time I had the board setup in my studio, I found out Kurzweil had removed the ARRANGE function found in K-series sequencer edit page, a major component to songwriting on the keyboard....but I always wondered about the PC3, specifically its sequencer capabilities...On the one hand to my ears that board sounded amazing, great presets and no filler...but as a performance controller, is there truly no way to sequence patterns/arrangements/songs on those boards?...that's the impression I got from users here at HC during my month long time with the board...that the series only allows for linear multi-track sequences..is this true? Perhaps there was a new way of recording part-mutes, section changes etc, but if there was I couldn't find it in the manual. I'd love to use some of the PC3 sounds but if I can't "stack parts/sections/loops etc." or arrange songs on my workstation I don't know what I'd do (obviously software sequencers do exist...don't they?) Does the PC3-k series amend this issue? I agree with the evil dragon that Kurzweil s UI isn't as "pick-up-and-play" as say a Motif XS or Korg Kronos, but I always found working with the K-series reasonably stress free, and VAST is still the best synthesis module available in my book.

[Dave Weiser]

Hey, jumping in on the conversation, I think the original poster and I have share some common experiences. I've used kurzweils since 1998 when I bought a K2v+ (61 note sampling k2000)...I have since owned a K2661, as well as a Yamaha Motif XS8, and now I own a MOX8 which replaces my sold XS...I was wondering about the sequencing on the PC3 series...I actually had bought a PC3 (the 61 note board I forget the exact model name) but when it was delivered I received the 76 note version...I had to repackage everything, and order a mailing label from the retailer...I was hacked! I also found out Kurzweil had removed the ARRANGE function found in K-series sequencer edit page...I ended up returning the board and buying a used K2661 (which is a killer K though mine had some bugs) and a discounted Akai MPC5000 for the cost of the then new PC3 ...but I always wondered about the PC3 and specifically its sequencer... On the one hand to my ears that board sounded amazing, great presets and no filler...but as a performance controller, is there truly no way to sequence patterns/arrangements/songs on those boards?...that's the impression I got from users here during the brief time that I had the PC3-76 set up at my studio...that the series only allows for linear multi-track sequences..is this true? I'd love to use some of the PC3 sounds but if I can't "stack parts/loops etc." or arrange songs on my workstation I don't know what I'd do (obviously software sequencers do ecist...don't they? I agree with the user that Kurzweil s UI isn't as simple as say a Motif XS, but I always found working with the K-series reasonably stress free, and VAST is still the best synthesis module available in my book.

 

The "arrange" thing has come up a few times. First, try to think of it this way - we did not "remove" the arrange feature from the K series. The PC3 started off using PC2 code... so there was never any sequencer at all to "remove" anything from. When the Pc3 project was started, it was supposed to be a minor improvement from the PC2, with a very simple sequencer (the PC2 had no sequencer).

 

Halfway through the project, we were purchased by Hyundai, and with the influx of funs, we were able to make the Pc3 bigger and better than originally intended. We expanded the Pc3 sequencer to include lots of features, including many features NOT included in the K series (chasing controls, set loop/end point, multiple fxchains with fx mods, etc).

But we did not have the time/resources to add the arrange feature from the K series.

 

One workaround... the PC3 setup mode allows you to trigger 16 independent Riffs (sequences, one per zone) and 16 arpeggiators (which can also be step/pattern sequences). These can be triggered with buttons, keys, pedals, etc and can be synced in a variety of ways.

 

Feel free to email me if you have any other questions....

davew@ycrdi.com

[dreamstasis80]

I don't care what you say. Ya screwed me dave. Ya took my decade long brand loyalty and spit on it. ha ha ha. Now howabout beefing up the sequencer in a future workstation featuring the PC3 soundset. Then and only then will you and your corporation be redeemed . In all seriousness, the PC3 is pretty expensive for a keyboard that doesn't have standard pattern arrange modes! It does sound amazing though. Truly there will always be a little love for Kurzweil in my heart when I look back at the K2000, my first synthesizer, so sleep tight.

[Casio Man]

Motif XS is awfully expensive for a synth, that doesn't even have a synth.

[dreamstasis80]

Granted, and I sold my XS for that reason, now I own the moderately priced MOX8 for the sounds and sequencing and am in the market for a K2vs for the synthesis edge... I'd never try to put Yammie vs. VAST head to head in terms of programability, but I've designed some slammin sounds on my MOX despite the relatively basic construction tools. With the MOX you can also use the built in USB audio device to streamline recording tracks and analog instruments within a DAW. The MOX8- highly recommended.

[Synthaholic]

, we were able to make the Pc3 bigger and better than originally intended. We expanded the Pc3 sequencer to include lots of features, including many features NOT included in the K series (chasing controls, set loop/end point, multiple fxchains with fx mods, etc). But we did not have the time/resources to add the arrange feature from the K series. One workaround... the PC3 setup mode allows you to trigger 16 independent Riffs (sequences, one per zone) and 16 arpeggiators (which can also be step/pattern sequences). These can be triggered with buttons, keys, pedals, etc and can be synced in a variety of ways. Feel free to email me if you have any other questions.... davew@ycrdi.com

 

 

Freudian slip!

[lupene]

Synthaholic me think u slipping

[xpander]

the OP's experience with Kurzweil doesn't really sound that bad. it's frustrating and time-consuming, but i've had bad customer service before: i'm looking at you, Rogue Music in NYC. caveat emptor.

[Dave Weiser]

Still have not heard from the OP..... I'm here and ready to assist.

As some of the other folks on the forum can attest, we always do our best to take care of customers, especially those who've run into difficulties.

[TropicThink]

Never had a problem with my beloved K2600XS, so I have no personal experience with Kurzweil's customer service. They make some kick ass synths, though, that's for damn sure.

[ElectricPuppy]

Dave, I think it's great that you take the time to answer user's questions here and are always willing to help out when folks have issues. Kudos, sir.