Members jason41987 Posted September 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 so has anyone used this williams allegro digital piano?.. wonder if its worth $300 or if the 76 key yamahas are really that much better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 so has anyone used this williams allegro digital piano?.. wonder if its worth $300 or if the 76 key yamahas are really that much better? They will feel completely different... the allegro is a weighted action, the 76-key yamahas are not. If you are mostly going to be triggering VST sounds, any difference in sound quality won't matter, so it would depend what kind of action you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 so does the allegro feel more like a piano? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caligvla Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 yeah right, an asus transformer has twice the performance at half the cost of an ipad See what music creation apps you can find for Android then come back and make the same statement ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caligvla Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 so has anyone used this williams allegro digital piano?.. wonder if its worth $300 or if the 76 key yamahas are really that much better? Williams is utter {censored} ... If you can handle sloppy, spongy action and muffled tone by all means go for it ... Your best bet in a budget 88-key digital piano would be some kind of used Casio Privia ... They are quite decent, actually ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 so does the allegro feel more like a piano? Right. (Though as I said at the start of the thread, if that's what you're looking for, and that's your budget, I'd me more inclined to look for a used Yamaha P-85 or Casio CDP-100/PX-100/PX-110) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 well, if the allegro is such low quality then id probably be better off getting a 76 key for now which ultimate will come down to either the NP-31 for about $230 on amazon, or the NP-V60 which is about $330 and used the same exact keyboard, but adds more effects and voices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caligvla Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 You'd be better off buying something used ... Generally, most sellers are of musical equipment are upfront about the instrument's condition ... You'll get a lot more for your money ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 i just have a psychological issue about buying things used.. hard to explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 well, i think i made the decision to get the NP-31 afterall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 i just have a psychological issue about buying things used.. hard to explain While I understand your concern, you should at least take a look at some of these options: http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/index.cfm I chose Keyboards, put in $0-$300, and used the keyword '76' or '88' and it returned a large number of keyboards. You could further narrow it down to your area. But there are some good deals, and if you can find a Casio or Yamaha for $150, it would certainly be a working unit that you could get your $150 out of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 well, i think i made the decision to get the NP-31 afterall I WIN!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 hmm... problem with the NP-31 though.. no USB out so i can use it with synthesia... i know, id only need an adapter but... i dunno, i really want those other 12 keys.. i REALLY like the bass keys that are missing.. they sound so ... intense, im trying to convince myself to buy a casio privia right now, from the sound samples ive heard they sound amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 hmm... problem with the NP-31 though.. no USB out so i can use it with synthesia... i know, id only need an adapter I actually see that as an advantage. If you ever might want to connect your keyboard to another MIDI device without using a computer, you need a standard MIDI jack, not USB. So here's the difference: If you get a Yamaha with only standard MIDI jacks and you want to adapt it to USB, the cost can be as little as about $5-$10 (or $30-$40 for a name brand, not everyone has good luck with the cheapies). BUT, if you get a Yamaha with only USB and you ever want to adapt it to standard MIDI, the adapter is $180. (And only once company makes it... if they stop making it, you won't be able to get it at all.) BTW, the Williams Allegro (which I have no personal experience with) also has the standard MIDI ports like the NP-31. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 scott, whats your opinion on the allegro? id really like to get something with 88 keys, but cant justify spending the money on a privia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 scott, whats your opinion on the allegro? id really like to get something with 88 keys, but cant justify spending the money on a privia This is turning into a stream of consciousness thread. Just kidding, Jason!!! If the price stays low enough, here is your perfect solution: http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/1509113876...E:B:SS:US:1123 ETA: I know you are uncomfortable with used, but they have a 100% feedback rating on 4,606 transactions, so I would deem them trustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 AnotherScott is right: MIDI out is better than USB out, for anyone who doesn't know what the future might hold.I strongly recommend a hammer-action (a.k.a. "fully weighted") keyboard, even if it's a relatively light action. It takes quite a bit of practice to learn to play a hammer action well, but once learned, it's easy to transition to unweighted or "semi-weighted" keyboards. The transition the other way is considerably harder. I grew up when most keyboard players were either piano players or organ players. Piano players could always make music with an organ, after learning a few legato techniques (which you need due to no sustain pedal). Organists could rarely do much with a piano, though. They hadn't developed the muscles or the skillz. (I'm sure there are a number of exceptions -- there always are. But *most* who played only organ had a hard time with a piano.)Furthermore, to play piano parts and make them sound right is very difficult on an unweighted action. (Velocity sensitive is necessary in any case, and you want that even in an unweighted action, although you don't need it when playing organ parts.)Most synth parts -- all but the fastest licks -- can be played quite well on a hammer action keyboard (especially if it's not a particularly heavy one). Serious organ players hate playing organ on weighted keyboards, but I did that for years and didn't have a big problem with it. Admittedly, I don't have a deep list of organ-specific licks, never having owned a Hammond myself.88 keys aren't necessary. I've done fine with 73 and 76. 88 is best, but shorter boards can be more practical. Unfortunately, there are very few hammer-action keyboards that aren't also 88 keys. As mentioned above, 88 keys is great when splitting the keyboard into zones with different patches in different zones.Finally, don't understimate the addictive quality of piano. It's an amazing instrument, even in its less stellar digital imitations. There's so much a piano can do, even without serious skill or technique (thank goodness for me!) I play a number of instruments, but the last one that would be pried from my cold dead fingers would be the piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 BTW, a good thing about a Privia or Casio CDP-100 is that they hold their value remarkably well. Buy a used one and you can sell it for what you got it for, even 3 years later. (But yeah, you have a thing about used gear. Good for us, too bad for you.) Buy a new one and if you get the bottom-end model, sell it later for only $100 less. Also, there are closeout sales going on now in places like Guitar Center, where they're selling the PX-130 at a discount (e.g., $300, without stand) since the newer models are shipping. Prices might drop from that, too.I've been looking for a CDP-100 for $250 and can't ever seem to find one in the area. There's one now but it's over an hour drive away, and I have no time to get away right now, not to mention factoring in the price value of my time, and my need isn't critical (at least not until my current DP finally dies.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 "Graded" action (meaning, bottom keys are heavier) is unimportant -- ignore that totally. It's only important to someone who's seriously practicing classical music on a DP, but plan to play on a real piano. I've played all sorts of pianos, and you have to get used to every piano's action. The more you do it, the easier it gets. IMHO "graded" is a marketing thing: just one more "authentic" detail that's fairly cheap to offer and might win a sale, but only really matters to a very few very serious players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 scott, whats your opinion on the allegro? As I said, I have no personal experience with it, sorry. Also, I agree with pretty much everything learjeff said, except that I really do find playing an organ on a weighted action about as much of an impediment to learning how to play organ well as I find an unweighted action an impediment to developing good piano skills... so ultimately, if you're serious, whichever you get now, you may want to add the other later, and is one of a number of reasons that so many of us use more than one board. And I think he's right about how satisfying it can be to play piano, more than any other keyboard sound. I think it's the easiest sound to find fully satisfying on its own (i.e. when playing without accompaniment tracks or other musicians). Part of it is the expressiveness of the sound, how much control you have with how you play; part of it is the use of the sustain pedal which allows you to play off some keys without continuing to hold them down (yet unlike most keyboard sounds, the natural attack/decay envelope of the notes prevents those sustained notes from quickly getting too overwhelming). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Originally Posted by AnotherScott ... I really do find playing an organ on a weighted action about as much of an impediment to learning how to play organ well as I find an unweighted action an impediment to developing good piano skills... so ultimately, if you're serious, whichever you get now, you may want to add the other later, and is one of a number of reasons that so many of us use more than one board. True dat. I just think it's easier going one way than the other, and if I can only have one, I'd pick weighted. I'm biased, though, as should be fairly obvious. Long term with any seriousness, you want both, and sometimes 3 keyboards (hammer, waterfall "semi-weighted" for organs or clav, and "diving board" springy synth action). Of the 3, the springy synth action is the one I like the least, though I played on it for many years on four different keyboards, but it's the kind on most keyboards especially those with less than 80 keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 you know.. i have to agree about one thing said... these better digital pianos tend to hold their value better... i shouldnt worry about spending $500 on one and not liking it.. because if i do, i already have a great instrument worth keeping, if i dont i can still get most my investment back... so.. ill get an 88 key weighted hammer action digital piano... since i used to build musical instruments before (stringed instruments) ill have no problem making my own keyboard stand for it... i wonder if its ok to get the digital piano now, and a pedal board of three pedals later that i can attach to a back piece of the stand?... would rather the pedals were built onto the stand so i dont kick them all overthat being said... here are the options im looking atcasio privia PX-130yamaha P-85/95korg SP170 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 casio privia PX-130 yamaha P-85/95 korg SP170 All perfectly good choices, each with their fans. Personally, I'd take the Yamaha, but plenty of people would tell you to choose one of the others, it's just subjective at that point. But they will all hold their value better and be easier to find a buyer for compared to the Williams. (Probably Yamaha first, Casio second, Korg third, in terms of an eager resale market.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 The P-85 comes with a stand, dunnit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Originally Posted by wesg The P-85 comes with a stand, dunnit? No. Stands are optional. Though one of the things changed from the 85 to the 95 is that they added brackets on the bottom that allowed it to sit on a wider variety of stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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