Members Boris the Blade Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 While looking at some preamps on ebay, I stumbled on a tube vs. solid state article. In the article the person brings up tube preamp/solid state power amp amplifiers. One point I often make is that the amplifiers currently made with a tube preamplifier are probably the ideal compromise for most users and really do offer the best of both worlds. In most amplifiers, the input signal is too faint to go directly to the output amplifier, so a preamplifier is used. In solid state devices, this is simply part of the integrated circuit design. In tube amplifiers, or the hybrids like Marshall's Valvestate and others, it is a pre-amplifier tube, usually a 12ax7. In the Valvestate and other similar amps, there is both a tube preamp and a solid state preamp, so that you can choose your sound. The important thing to understand is that once the tube pre-amp has colored the sound to tube quality, the introduction of solid state amplification does not and cannot change it back. Since solid state reproduces the sound with virtually no coloration, it simply accepts the sound of the tube pre-amp and amplifies it. Think of it this way: if you are at a major concert and the guitar player is creating a distorted guitar sound, that sound is then put into the concert sound system - which is always solid state. The solid state system simply brings that distorted sound to the entire arena, instead of only within a few feet of the stage. Otherwise, it's virtually the same sound the guitar player is making.So, do you need a tube amp to get a tube sound? I hate to pop any bubbles, but generally speaking the answer is no. Most people will be hard pressed to hear any difference between a tube pre-amp and an all tube amplifier. Tube amplifiers are more expensive to buy and maintain, and far less reliable, particularly for musicians on the road. Tubes fail like their cousins the incandescent light bulbs, and you must always have a good stock on hand. Even if you check your tubes before every performance, you will still find yourself cutting out in the middle of a show from time time to time. If a 12ax7 pre-amp tube fails mid-song, you simply hit a switch. My advice would be that if you can truly hear the difference or want the prestige and investment value, by all means buy an all tube amp. If all you want is tube sound on demand, a tube preamp will do the trick for less money and with a lot less aggravation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members book_of_lies777 Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 ***yawn*** the only people who care about tube vs. non-tube are overly anal musicians, usually on internet message boards. ***yawn*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheGreatGreen Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 That article is pretty much a load of crap. If anything, the most important point in the signal chain to have tubes in a guitar amp is the poweramp. His equation about concerts is totally misleading, because the concert PA is amplifying an all tube signal, with tube poweramp clipping. Poweramp clipping is where the real magic of tube amps happen anyway. I'd rather have an amp with a solid state preamp and tube poweramp than the other way around. His last paragraph is total bull{censored}. Yes, you need an all tube amp if you want to sound like you have an all tube sound. Ask yourself this, if tube amps weren't the best, then why would solid state companies advertise that their amps sound "as good as tube amps". If solid state amps were really the best sounding amp, tube amp companies would advertise their tube amps as sounding "as good as solid state amps" and that won't happen for a VERY long time, if ever. That alone should tell you what sounds best. And tubes are a hell of a lot more durable than lightbulbs. That would be like me saying "PC's are like their cousin, the pocket calculator, and you wouldn't want to try and use a calculator to run a big ole' operating system, would you? Of couse you wouldn't. Get a Mac." Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members '63-Strat Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 yeah Marshall Valvestates sound amazing:blah: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaXu Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 That article is pretty much a load of crap. If anything, the most important point in the signal chain to have tubes in a guitar amp is the poweramp.His equation about concerts is totally misleading, because the concert PA is amplifying an all tube signal, with tube poweramp clipping. Poweramp clipping is where the real magic of tube amps happen anyway. I'd rather have an amp with a solid state preamp and tube poweramp than the other way around. A few years ago I would have agreed with you but nowadays can't. I feel that with a good master volume (which many amps don't have) you don't need to have power tubes clipping. I've tried running a tube preamp into a solid-state poweramp and a solid-state preamp into a tube poweramp and in both cases it was the SS+SS and tube+tube combinations that sounded best. Run a tube preamp into a SS poweramp and it sounds like there's a whole lot less gain and girth to the tone and the feel seems tighter. The SS preamp + tube poweramp works better but felt it lacked definition. Still, the eBay bit is bull{censored}. While I believe that it's perfectly possible to get good, even great tones out of solid-state amps, there is always a tube amp that sounds even better and above all has a better feel. In my experience solid-state amps tend to be more compressed and thus don't have the same dynamic range a good tube amp can have (there are certainly very compressed tube amps as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C Fuzz Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 I played a Kustom the other day at a store that was a tube preamp/ss poweramp and it sounded like a ss amp to me. It honestly sounded nothing like an all tube amp. As drastic as this might sound I would rather not even play then use anything but an all tube amp. I am pissed I went 13 years before going tube last year. What was I thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbobo Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 If it sounds good, it is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 tube power amp is ALWAYS a bigger deal than a tube preamp. ALWAYS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 too long for me to bother to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cobrahead1030 Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 you can't single out any one part of the signal chain, and make judgements about how the entire rig will sound based on that...which exactly what that article does for example: one could go on and on about how the celestion v30 is the greatest speaker ever made, and give some stupid reasons to support it...but if ya run a plywood guitar, into a gorilla with a v30 in it; it's gonna sound like {censored}e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 you can't single out any one part of the signal chain, and make judgements about how the entire rig will sound based on that...which exactly what that article does for example: one could go on and on about how the celestion v30 is the greatest speaker ever made, and give some stupid reasons to support it...but if ya run a plywood guitar, into a gorilla with a v30 in it; it's gonna sound like {censored}e Stop making judgements on how that rig is going to sound.If you run some tasteful pickups with a well-intonated, plywood guitar with decent hardware into a gorilla with a real 12" V30, it might sound pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members edthecat Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 ***yawn***the only people who care about tube vs. non-tube are overly anal musicians, usually on internet message boards.***yawn*** lol!!! sooo true. But, that article is a load of doo doo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cobrahead1030 Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 Stop making judgements on how that rig is going to sound. If you run some tasteful pickups with a well-intonated, plywood guitar with decent hardware into a gorilla with a real 12" V30, it might sound pretty good. prove me and my judgementalism wrong...and fun intonating the plywood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RJofGreatness Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 i can also say that by first hand experience, valvestate sounds like a gerbil {censored}ting compared to my dc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slunderfungus Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 As drastic as this might sound I would rather not even play then use anything but an all tube amp. I am pissed I went 13 years before going tube last year. What was I thinking. I'll second that for the most part. I will never buy anything other than a tube amp, but if I'm at a freinds and he wants to hear me chop and all he has ia a fender Backstage what the hell.Iwent close to 16years buying SolidState for two reasons. One they are cheaper and it was easier to put out the dough to buy the amp. This was also in the days before ebay! Also we live in an apartment and my amps havealways been in the front room. Solid State amps wont fry if you turn them on astrum the guitar before itwarms up, or shut it of too quickly I always wait until the light in my standby switch to go out before I shut the power switch off. Also SS amps wont blow hot tubes if the amo gets knocked over by a clumsy little one that really just wants to be with you because you are doing something neat and they like the music they hear! The last SS amp I bought was a little Crate RFX15 practice ampa couple years ago when I bought a cheap Ibanez knock off just to have something to dick with. I also ended up blowing my disc again o month later and sold it because it sounded like crap(mainly the guitar) and it hurt like hell to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blargh Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 I've had to repair many more solid state amps than tube amps, I'll tell you that much.... this "more reliable" {censored} has to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cobrahead1030 Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 people confuse 'reliable' and 'low maintenance' a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 That guy clearly doesn't understand power tube distortion, and as mentioned, his PA analogy shows he has no idea what he's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members book_of_lies777 Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 If it sounds good, it is good.EXACTLY!!!!!!It doesn't matter HOW the sound is achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members warriorxtman Posted June 10, 2007 Members Share Posted June 10, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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