Members minimoog Posted December 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 29, 2012 Originally Posted by The Pro I bought a Hammond SK2 last February and I credit it with increasing my gigs. I have synths and pianos but when I took my "pocket b3" to some jam sessions it immediately raised a lot of eyebrows. My sit-in calls increased and I now play with two bands regularly that I did not play with a year ago. There is a lot of keyboards that simulate organ sounds but there is a difference in perception by fellow musos when it says "Hammond" on the front. mmm made me think , Soo put a hammond or Moog sticker on them??? maybe Jupiter 8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted December 29, 2012 Members Share Posted December 29, 2012 Back in the mid-70s I had no equipment. I was trying out for a funk band and rented a Hohner Pianet because it was much cheaper than renting a Clavinet. The pianet had one sound and no dynamics, which was fatal for a piano player. I didn't get the gig and the whole thing cost me money that I didn't have. So, in that case, I suspect that I should have sprung for the more expensive instrument. On the other hand, I'm not sure that band had a future anyway--I'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Pro Posted December 30, 2012 Members Share Posted December 30, 2012 Originally Posted by minimoog mmm made me think , Soo put a hammond or Moog sticker on them??? maybe Jupiter 8? If you're the kind that would put a dress on a pig to go to the prom, sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted December 30, 2012 Members Share Posted December 30, 2012 I'll stick to answering the OP original question and stay focused on gear. At the moment, I'm extremely happy with my keyboard "gig rig" for the type of material I play - so there's nothing I'm shopping for there. Same goes with PA ... although my PA gear is a little dated and lots of newer, lighter, more capable gear that I'd love to have (digital boards, powered spearkers) - my existing gear (MixWiz, Yamaha Club mains and subs, QSC power) gets the job done. Gear that would add a capability that I don't currently have would be a solid LED lighting rig. (Although I have lights - they're old "high watt" halogen lights. Unfortunately, they're virtually unuseable for the vast majority of my gigs - either because of the heat output when we're set up in tight spaces - or because sufficient power is seldom available (I need at least two dedicated 15 amp circuits to run 'em). A decent LED lighting rig would definitely be a useful addition that could help bring in more gigs / better $$$ gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moogerfooger Posted January 2, 2013 Members Share Posted January 2, 2013 I good quality PA and the talent to put songs over is all that is needed. actually less is more. I used to drag all sorts of stuff. keyboards, rack synth and sampler, electric and acoustic guitars, lights, you name it. now i go out with a guitar and a keyboard, and small rack with mixer and IEMs, an eon or two, and I'm set. all fits in my jeep, so i'm not pulling a trailer anymore. If a big gig comes along, all I have to do I hook up the trailer and Im covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Pro Posted January 2, 2013 Members Share Posted January 2, 2013 One other thought that might help someone here: around 2005 I decided to become a combination wedding pianist and DJ. I had been getting gigs as a pianist for the ceremony or reception and someone else would be hired as the DJ for the dance party (the DJ would make the lion's share of the money). And since I had the essentials already (PA, intelligent lights) I added a small rack with a Numark DJ system and some wireless mics so I could be a one-man wedding entertainer. It worked for a while - I was getting gigs for as much as $800 a day several times a month. As the recession took hold in 2008 my gigs fell off and my competition grew with DJ's doing wedding gigs for cheap. Booking agencies got into the act - they would charge $400 and pay the DJ $150. And to really seal my fate I moved to Atlanta where DJ's are a dime a dozen. It's now been a pretty good while since I had a wedding gig as a pianist/DJ though I still have the DJ gear just in case. At least the gear all paid for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zoink Posted January 2, 2013 Members Share Posted January 2, 2013 With the present state of live music in this economy, I don't envy any of you who gig these days, and I have no desire to do it again. Even here in Austin, the "Live Music Capital of the World," I know and meet a lot of musicians who live hand to mouth playing live. It's a hardscrabble existence. They're generally talented, too, and many of them still harbor dreams of "making it big," not realizing that there's no "big" left to "make." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Weiser Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by minimoog trumpet,violin,a very good wireles midi controller,gran piano,a very powerfull Laptop etc etc Exactly what kind of gigs are you trying to get? I think we could help advise you on how to get the job done with some affordable gear, at least to start.Once you start working, you'll be able to afford more/better gear.Like I said in my earlier post I have NEVER known a skilled, trained, talented musician who could not get gigs simply because of gear limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Pro Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Dave Weiser I have NEVER known a skilled, trained, talented musician who could not get gigs simply because of gear limitations. I certainly have. I knew a keyboardist who used an out of date / super-heavy 88-note Korg workstation from the 80's (forgot the model but there was only one so Google it) plus two other dated and heavy keyboards to play with a trio. Good player but bad gear, and with flight cases the rig used to bottom-out the guy's station wagon. The other two guys in the band HATED the keys - they wanted the keyboardist to buy a newer single/lighter/all-purpose workstation and leave the other stuff at home or sell it. They even enlisted me to talk to the guy and I did - he said he couldn't afford to upgrade. So the drummer and bass player refused to help him with his gear until he got wise. About two weeks after I talked to the keyboardist, he died of a heart attack while unloading his gear into his basement.A single 45-lb keyboard might have saved the guy's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donaldcrunk Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by The Pro I certainly have. I knew a keyboardist who used an out of date / super-heavy 88-note Korg workstation from the 80's (forgot the model but there was only one so Google it) plus two other dated and heavy keyboards to play with a trio. Good player but bad gear, and with flight cases the rig used to bottom-out the guy's station wagon. The other two guys in the band HATED the keys - they wanted the keyboardist to buy a newer single/lighter/all-purpose workstation and leave the other stuff at home or sell it. They even enlisted me to talk to the guy and I did - he said he couldn't afford to upgrade. So the drummer and bass player refused to help him with his gear until he got wise. About two weeks after I talked to the keyboardist, he died of a heart attack while unloading his gear into his basement.A single 45-lb keyboard might have saved the guy's life. holy crap! intense story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mega Jon Posted January 4, 2013 Members Share Posted January 4, 2013 more paid gigs means sounding good enough to get referals and call backs so you need quality, portable gear. A reliable keyboard with GOOD sound that you know how to use in a gig setting - doesn't have to be BEST sound becuase you're live but CRAP sound will sound like loud CRAP. Gig playing is different than studio playing so it has to be able to change sounds quickly and you have to be good enough to know how much to play and how much to NOT play. You need a good monitor. If you have to provide your own PA you want enough power to fill the venues you are playing with reserve, and durable/reliable mics. The band's sound guy needs to know how to set the mix and if you don't have a dedicated man on the board you need to know how to adjust your board(s) between sounds so you are loud enough but not too loud when everyone else stays about the same. You need to know the sounds in your board so you can match with the mood of the set and venue, and play as part of the band. Nobody in the audience should know there is a keyboard player most of the time but if you stopped playing they would miss you. The band should feel the same way. Depending on how seriously you are giging and the style you play, you may not need an 88 key weighted stage piano or dedicated organ, just a well made 66 key lightweight workstation that you know inside and out. Then add a synth/vocoder - or a trumpet/accordian/keytar. If you are using a controller and laptop, you need to know your software inside and out and will want VERY sturdy and adjustable stands. Less is more. In the studio, lots of gear is fun and inspiring, on stage it gets in the way and is a lot to haul around, break, loose track of... If you are a pro on tour, well, that's different. As always, my opinion is worth what it cost. I have read extensively on this for years and while I play out weekly, I don't often collect a check - that styel of giging doesn't fit my current lifestyle, which, to go back to the begining of the post, is what I want for all of my musical pursuits - studio and live - more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Pro Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 One last story... I was just returning home from four years in the USAF in 1980 and I was just starting my search for a band to gig with. Some friends told me to check out a local popular band so I threw one of my keyboards and an amp into my car and went to see them. I arrived at the end of their first set, went up and introduced myself to the band leader. The conversation was very short... "You play keys, got your own gear?" (Yes). At the top of his voice he yells across the stage to the guy who had been playing keys: "Steve! Get your {censored} and get out of here, you're fired!". It turns out that "Steve" was one of these guys who was always broke, always borrowing money, hocked his keyboard every Monday to pay bills then borrowed money to get them back in time to play on the weekend, etc. I took over his spot starting with the second set and played with that band for about three years. There are two points here... Obviously the first is that it pays to be a reliable member of the band and to not need to pawn your gear every week to live. I met at least two guys over the years who regularly pawned their gear to make ends meet. The other is to have your gear ready to go at a moment's notice because you never know what opportunity awaits. I happened upon an ad in my local Craigslist just this past week for a pianist for a singer, and I got the gig because I have a digital piano, a small PA, and a nice website with bio, demos, songlist etc. The singer is flying in from New York for a short recital for a major corporate client in two weeks and the gig is very lucrative. My website, gear, and readiness to perform convinced the singer to hire me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members minimoog Posted January 5, 2013 Author Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by The Pro If you're the kind that would put a dress on a pig to go to the prom, sure... i wil probably do it just to piss some people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Radleo Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by Mega Jon Nobody in the audience should know there is a keyboard player most of the time but if you stopped playing they would miss you. The band should feel the same way. Originally Posted by Mega Jon I don't often collect a check Hmm...I wonder...could it be...no, surely not...Personally, I think playing so that nobody can hear you kind of misses the point of making music. I've never seen an orchestra musician trying not to be heard. Or a guitarist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by Dave Weiser ....I have NEVER known a skilled, trained, talented musician who could not get gigs simply because of gear limitations. I have - several in fact. In most cases those, I don't think the problem was a "gear limitation" in a simple "gee, he plays an inexpense, less than state of the art keyboard" sense. For the "skilled, trained, talented musicians" that I've seen struggle - the "gear limitation" was usually a manifestation of other issues. In some cases - they were guys who saw "going cheap" as a end unto itself. (Sure "vintage" gear has some appeal - but not if doesn't have the features/functionality and reliability to do the job night in and night out). Lots of guys, myself included - will simply not put up with a bandmate who's rig is constantly breaking - or that is woefully inadequate for the gig. In other cases - the "gear limitation" was the result of the guy being completely disorganized in life in general - and unable to get his {censored} together enough to ensure he had the tools he needed to do the gig. I'm a firm believer that simply being a "skilled, trained, talented musician" (speaking strictly in a musical sense) is only part of the package. There's also the need to have the necessary tools (gear, transportation, etc) and the organizational skills (i.e., the discipline to actually learn the material before showing up to gigs and rehearsals, the ability to ensure that you and your gear are where they're supposed to be, when they're supposed to be there, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members triton76 Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 that second tenacious D vid where JackBlack says good bye to his guitar is hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by SpaceNorman I'm a firm believer that simply being a "skilled, trained, talented musician" (speaking strictly in a musical sense) is only part of the package. There's also the need to have the necessary tools (gear, transportation, etc) and the organizational skills (i.e., the discipline to actually learn the material before showing up to gigs and rehearsals, the ability to ensure that you and your gear are where they're supposed to be, when they're supposed to be there, etc.). Fully agreed. Lots of factors are required for success in the entertainment biz. Musical ability and knowledge are two of probably dozens. Some have to do with character--everything from dependability to assertiveness. Some to do with connections, location and resources (like being able to afford adequate tools). I know a couple who, if they were right-place-right-time, would make a very charming and authentic Country duo. But they're young, uneducated, poor and married with two kids, work shifts at a factory and absolutely cannot put together the time or means to get beyond the unsustainable brutally-poorly-paid bottom of the music business. Folks like that all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members delaware dave Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Right now I'm watching AXS TV and there is a Fabulous Thunderbirds concert from 2008 at the Houston Solution. Eugene Taylor is playing an old Hammond XB2 through what appears to be a solid state leslie and is also using an old RD300 stage piano. The equipment is certainly not up to today's standards but it obviously didn't stop them from getting the gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members minimoog Posted January 5, 2013 Author Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 ??? We all know that is what they show, some modules or stuff not in sight ? but yea I know you have to be way more than a preatty good player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by Dave Weiser I humbly submit that you are asking the wrong question.Remove the word "gear" and replace with any of the following:Skill, training, education, background, discipline, courtesy, experience and/or talent.In my own experience, I have yet to meet a brilliant player or composer who cannot find work for lack of cool gear.What I have encountered more than once is a brilliant player or composer who has difficulty getting gigs due to poor communication skills, bad manners or a lack of common sense.Gear = tools for doing a job. Usually people who are good at a job manage to obtain adequate tools for performing the job.In this day and age anyone can afford decent tools for creating music, even if at first you have to earn the money doing something other than music.A few nights working as a waiter or bartender per week for a few months should allow anyone to afford a cheap Dell laptop, a DAW and/or an affordable keyboard.(Yes you might have to do that waitering as a 2nd job, but I can attest from firsthand experience it is quite doable.) As I always tell my golfing buddies, with their TaylorMade and Ping clubs: it's the carpenter, not the tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mega Jon Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by Radleo Hmm...I wonder...could it be...no, surely not...Personally, I think playing so that nobody can hear you kind of misses the point of making music. I've never seen an orchestra musician trying not to be heard. Or a guitarist... It isn't about not being heard - you should be heard, that's why they'd miss you when you stop playing. I'm talking about integration into the group sound rather than drowning everyone else out or doing your own thing so obviously that it stands out. Just listening to the band you should hear music. Listening for the bass you should be able to pick it out easily, for the keys same way but you shouldn't have to listen through either one to hear the other.Once you are established with the band you get your chance to play lead and even the guitarist has to back off a wee bit...Am I not explaining it well or do you think I'm off on this? Serious question - I hang out here to learn. I'm not trolling if that's your suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cygnus64 Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by The Pro I certainly have. I knew a keyboardist who used an out of date / super-heavy 88-note Korg workstation from the 80's (forgot the model but there was only one so Google it) plus two other dated and heavy keyboards to play with a trio. Good player but bad gear, and with flight cases the rig used to bottom-out the guy's station wagon. The other two guys in the band HATED the keys - they wanted the keyboardist to buy a newer single/lighter/all-purpose workstation and leave the other stuff at home or sell it. They even enlisted me to talk to the guy and I did - he said he couldn't afford to upgrade. So the drummer and bass player refused to help him with his gear until he got wise. About two weeks after I talked to the keyboardist, he died of a heart attack while unloading his gear into his basement.A single 45-lb keyboard might have saved the guy's life. There was a ballet conductor who had heart problems and couldn't conduct. A friend of mine was the asst conductor who subbed in his place. There was a Sunday matinee after a "Set your clock forward" time change, and my friend forgot to set his clock forward and was late. The ailing conductor went on instead and conducted the first half. He died a few hours later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundwave106 Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by Mega Jon Am I not explaining it well or do you think I'm off on this? Serious question - I hang out here to learn. I'm not trolling if that's your suggestion. I think you are explaining things fine. In a lot of keyboard songs, the keyboard / organ parts often serve as "background fill", something to add density, tone, etc. to the sound. The sound is there, but it should not *dominate*.In fact, in most pop songs, the vocalist will be the forefront of the piece for at least three-quarters of the song. (So, this really applies to *all* musicians in a band. In my experience, this rule is broken most often by guitarists. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Radleo Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by Mega Jon Am I not explaining it well or do you think I'm off on this? Serious question - I hang out here to learn. I'm not trolling if that's your suggestion. Never thought for a minute that you weren't serious. I guess the point that I was trying to make (somewhat lightheartedly - I completely confess to deliberately taking some of your comments out of context) was that this seemed to me to be a pretty limited view of being a musician. The idea that you're not worth more than simply playing along in the background without having much musical impact doesn't sit well with me. I like to know that I am adding real musical value when I play, not just making up the numbers. Of course I'm aware than in the real world plenty of gigs are exactly like that, it's your (apparent) assumption that "that's how it should be" that disheartens me. Personally, I avoid such work like the plague. Ego? - maybe. But I believe that music should be passionate, powerful and dramatic, and "playing along nicely in the background" doesn't aspire to any of these. The world of music is full of "rules" - all made to be broken. But I believe that there is one absolutely unbreakable rule: Whatever you do, don't bore them.Food for thought, hopefully - I'm not trying to lay down the law here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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