Members rinkrat6821 Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 I know that the twin reverbs and such sound like {censored} trying to crank them with the master volume and such so its basically useless but does the master volume actually affect the tone of the amp at all? Can't you just not crank it and it will sound just like a regular twin or such? I played a master volume seventy two twin and its clean was beautiful. Great reverb also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pwnerenator Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Oh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 You didn't play a m.v. '72 twin. A '72 had no master volume. Aside from that, I can't quite follow your post enough to comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_bleeding Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 yes it does effect the tone. Lets go over how a master volume works. It is a POTENTIOMETER. How do pots work? We have 3 connections, positive (+), negative (-), and ground (g). positive and negative are in the circuit, and the ground is typically attached to something random (like an amp chassis) Now, the value of the pot (250k, 500k, 1meg, 2 meg, etc) tells you how much current is resisted from going to the ground, when the pot is fully active (at 10). So, the lower the value of your pot, the more current is going to the ground, and therefore tonally, the more treble, gain, sustain, and high mids you lose... So what does a master volume do? It bleeds tone. In the case of a sunn model T (and i believe most if not all amps), the master is placed after the preamp, before the phase inverter, which is where it will limit the current that makes it into the powertubes. Non master-vol amps, (and likewise the channel volume knobs in master-vol amps) have the volume placed somewhere before or inside of the preamp. In the case of the sunn model t's channel volume, its placed after v1. On occasion, you'll find amps where the volumes and/or eq are placed before the preamp... they tend to sound muddy as {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LedZep1985 Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Didn't Fender start putting master volumes on their amps in 1974 or 1975? My 1972 Fender Super Reverb sounds great cranked alone, as well as pushing it a bit more with a TS-9 for some classic rock and blues tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 From what I was told, it wasn't as much the master volume as it was the rest of the circuit was completely different as well. The Master Volume simply warned people that the CBS designed circuit resided in the chassis. Cost cutting measures were taken, instead of focusing on the tone of the amp. I've heard them sound decent, but as a general rule I don't look at them for potential purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rinkrat6821 Posted October 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 Hey man. Thanks ALOT. I think you have persuaded me to stay away from master volume fenders, even though this twin had a wonderful clean tone. yes it does effect the tone. Lets go over how a master volume works. It is a POTENTIOMETER. How do pots work? We have 3 connections, positive (+), negative (-), and ground (g). positive and negative are in the circuit, and the ground is typically attached to something random (like an amp chassis) Now, the value of the pot (250k, 500k, 1meg, 2 meg, etc) tells you how much current is resisted from going to the ground, when the pot is fully active (at 10). So, the lower the value of your pot, the more current is going to the ground, and therefore tonally, the more treble, gain, sustain, and high mids you lose... So what does a master volume do? It bleeds tone. In the case of a sunn model T (and i believe most if not all amps), the master is placed after the preamp, before the phase inverter, which is where it will limit the current that makes it into the powertubes. Non master-vol amps, (and likewise the channel volume knobs in master-vol amps) have the volume placed somewhere before or inside of the preamp. In the case of the sunn model t's channel volume, its placed after v1. On occasion, you'll find amps where the volumes and/or eq are placed before the preamp... they tend to sound muddy as {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rinkrat6821 Posted October 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 Didn't Fender start putting master volumes on their amps in 1974 or 1975? My 1972 Fender Super Reverb sounds great cranked alone, as well as pushing it a bit more with a TS-9 for some classic rock and blues tones. How do you like your seventy two super? Thats another amp I am interested in. How are the cleans? The best you have heard? Let me know. I am really interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chriscnb Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 MV SF came out in 1972. Some 72's have them and some do not. Mine does, but I keep my master all the way out and plug into the normal channel and it's heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 MV SF came out in 1972. Some 72's have them and some do not. Mine does, but I keep my master all the way out and plug into the normal channel and it's heaven. I stand corrected. I had heard '73 before, but for some reason when I read this post I was thinking it was later than that, even.. My bassman is either a '71 or '72, and doesn't have a m.v. That's how I've dated it, basically, and why it's not more specific. It's a "Bassman 50", with no master volume, which pretty much narrows it down to those two years, from what I gather. Thinking about that is what finally made the "73" light bulb finally go off in my head as I read your post. That, in turn, makes late '72 make more sense to me. Was the whole line changed over at some point in '72, or just the Twin? It's starting to sound like (if they all changed at once) there's a better chance mine's a '71 than a '72, right? I've got no tube chart, and it's never been important enough to me to start dating components on the inside, so I just call it whichever one pops into my head when asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chriscnb Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 I know some 72 Twins and Bassmans had MV...not sure if the Supers did right away. I believe they were added in the mid 70s. I don't really like the later MV models with the push-pull. All the early 70s SF sound great and benefit even greater from "blackfacing" but the later 70s push pull SF amps I really can't into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LedZep1985 Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 How do you like your seventy two super? Thats another amp I am interested in. How are the cleans? The best you have heard? Let me know. I am really interested. I would definetly say that my Super Reverb has some of the best cleans that I've ever heard. It can get a great jazz tone when using the neck pickup of my 1973 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe. It's a great amp for recording as well, especially with the open back. Miking behind the speaker as well as the front of the speaker really brings out more tone imo when recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuchslover Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 Some of the SF Fender Twin's and Pro's had a pull master volume. In the "normal" (not pulled position) they were just a pre-power amp master volume. which produced little if any distortion with using a pedal to distort the preamp. In pulled mode, they used a part of the reverb driver circuit to produce the distortion. Clearly designed by an Engineer (with no guitarist participation). Maybe it looked good on an oscilloscope scope, but in real life it sounded like A$$. To say it was a "sonic cancer" would be paying it a huge compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rinkrat6821 Posted October 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 I just can't hear the master volume affecting the tone of the amp if it isn't used for "distortion".(you really can't call it that with the ass like fart that are produced) I played a 72' twin with the master volume and it was the best clean tone I have ever played. Beautiful with great low end also. If you don't use it then why does it really matter? Is there any way to mod the amp and have that removed? HOw much would they cost? How much does it cost to blackface and amp also and where do you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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