Members Drew5887 Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 I am not trying to start a fight, I just want to know the differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rich Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 PTP is better because it will make you sound like LEAD ZEPPLUNDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 because it costs more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zehn Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 Um a good quality PC board will sound every bit as good as PTP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmk Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 its not.not as far as quality of sound goes.its more a reliability and repair thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rich Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 Um a good quality PC board will sound every bit as good as PTPYeah, especially when you load that high quality pcb with inferior components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skaaks Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 The actual scientific reason why the exact same circuit wired PTP might sound different than on on a PCB board has to do with the direction and orientation of the wires. Wires running parallel in the same plane can result in a small amount of capicitance which affects frequency response. If there is enough of this capacitance throughout the circuit, there could be enough of a change in the frequency response to make a PCB wired circuit sound differently than a PTP one. Since a PCB board has most of it's wires running either parallel or perpendicular to each other in the same plane, there's more chance for this stray capacitance than on PTP circuits which ususally are all wired at different angles. In the end, however, so long as the designer of the amp always uses either PTP or PCB wiring, it won't matter since they're designing their circuit to have the tone they want for whatever layout they've decided on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drew5887 Posted January 3, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 So the tonal difference would be absolutely negligible in a mix? Has Marshall's reliability suffered now that they use PC Board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members realtree71 Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 Why have a nice organized pretty PC Board when you can have point to point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rich Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 So the tonal difference would be absolutely negligible in a mix? Has Marshall's reliability suffered now that they use PC Board? Yes.They are harder to maintain as well.The plastic shafted pots mickey mouse soldered to the board are a cheap way of being cheap. Howabout those horizontal inputs on the latter JCM 800's. They never had any issues no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rich Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 Now that's what I'm talkin' about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rich Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 It's more brOOtalz:cop:Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmk Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 Yes. They are harder to maintain as well. The plastic shafted pots mickey mouse soldered to the board are a cheap way of being cheap. Howabout those horizontal inputs on the latter JCM 800's. They never had any issues no? modern marshalls use plastic pots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 I am not trying to start a fight, I just want to know the differences. Why are you insinuating that it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blargh Posted January 3, 2008 Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 It's not. There's a good reason most REAL reliability demanding applications use PCBs. Unfortunately, budget amp manufacturers cut corners and make flimsy PCBs that are poorly mounted and use crap parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drew5887 Posted January 3, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2008 Why are you insinuating that it is? I just know that people get worked up about this. I am trying to decide whether to get a marshall or to go boutique. The major difference in the ones that I am looking at is PTP wiring. I am asking so that I can determine if it is worth the extra money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmk Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Unfortunately, MOST amp manufacturers cut corners and make flimsy PCBs that are poorly mounted and use crap parts. fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmk Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 I just know that people get worked up about this. I am trying to decide whether to get a marshall or to go boutique. The major difference in the ones that I am looking at is PTP wiring. I am asking so that I can determine if it is worth the extra money. if the circuits and components were the same, there wouldn't be much difference.with booteek amps you usually get a slightly modified circuit, with better components. thats what makes the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blargh Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 I just know that people get worked up about this. I am trying to decide whether to get a marshall or to go boutique. The major difference in the ones that I am looking at is PTP wiring. I am asking so that I can determine if it is worth the extra money. PTP wiring is one of those marketing bulletpoints. If you pay $3000 for an amp, you want it to look like the builder spent some time with it. Reliability has more to do with the manufacturer's intent on producing a quality amp than whether its PTP or PCB, really. You could make either method extremely reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBecker Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 I just know that people get worked up about this. I am trying to decide whether to get a marshall or to go boutique. The major difference in the ones that I am looking at is PTP wiring. I am asking so that I can determine if it is worth the extra money. Depends. I highly doubt they sound exactly the same but one is PTP and one is PCB. Though it's possible. Typically, I say with go with what sounds best, but PTP is often easier to repair and mod, but not always, and often more reliable, but not always. Modern Marshalls aren't built that well but still take a beating and do fine, so how much that extra build quality matters depends more on who you talk to than real world experience. Another thing to consider is this-- if it's an amp almost any tech would be familiar with, it'll be easy to fix on the road. PTP amps are generally not bad to fix as long as they can get a schematic (not always necessary, but also not always easy to get a boutique builder to give up). Amps that are PCB and not frequently found may be harder to get fixed in a town where you don't know a good tech. So if you're gigging out and far that's something I'd personally consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Grimace Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Becuase the Boutique Amp building guys don't have access to the equipment needed to make Printed Circuit Boards, and they are the source of virtually all completely baseless "tone myths." The guitar builders equivalent = CNC routers. The boutique guitar buidling guys can't afford to use CNC tooling and thus claim that CNC routing suck tone/soul/playability/whatever. They are the source of virtually all completely baseless "playbility and soul myths" You'll also note most of these "PTP are best" guys can only build Bassman and Marshall clones with slightly different valued components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members code_blue Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 It's officially not better anymore. In just the past 5 years computers are so good at doing what they do, human error is more likely at this point. You know why you don't see PTP four channel amps? Because they would burst into flames. Most PTP amps are so simple a computer made clone could make the same thing easily with a lower failure rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members realtree71 Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 This is the parade sideI have to admitt as Brutzly danagerous a fire hazzard as it may look it sounds great..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBecker Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Becuase the Boutique Amp building guys don't have access to the equipment needed to make Printed Circuit Boards, and they are the source of virtually all completely baseless "tone myths." The guitar builders equivalent = CNC routers. The boutique guitar buidling guys can't afford to use CNC tooling and thus claim that CNC routing suck tone/soul/playability/whatever. They are the source of virtually all completely baseless "playbility and soul myths"You'll also note most of these "PTP are best" guys can only build Bassman and Marshall clones with slightly different valued components. I was thinking about the CNC comparison but I do think that it doesn't quite go that far. There are reasons opening up an amp seeing PTP that's neat and well done can make a tech's job easier, at least this what I've heard from people who work on amps. It certainly makes modding easier... So there is a difference after the construction, it's just certainly not a tone one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Grimace Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 I was thinking about the CNC comparison but I do think that it doesn't quite go that far. There are reasons opening up an amp seeing PTP that's neat and well done can make a tech's job easier, at least this what I've heard from people who work on amps. It certainly makes modding easier... So there is a difference after the construction, it's just certainly not a tone one. Realistically, Amplifiers aren't designed to be modified. It's not the builder's duty to ensure that the amp can be easily modified. There's something to be said with regards to the tradeoff between easy to service and easy to build; It probably costs Marshall 15 dollars to build a tube amp board, and I don't think that's exaggerating; of course meaning the board only, not the OT, PT, or Cabinet. It's not really Marshall's problem that people want to modify them, and it's certainly not impossible to modify the PCB amps, as most reputable amp modders will mod both. The circuit is the same. I don't believe for a second anyone can hear hte difference. The fact htat some builders cut corners has little to do with PCB vs. hand wiring's sound difference. I also don't buy the "people want something that looks like it was hard" argument. It's specious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.