Rev Wright will stand in the way of the first Black President...

[damnuandurdog]

If this was a republican, there would be a fire storm in the media, they would be shown a pure evil, but Obama gets a pass for the most part. What a f*cking joke.

 

 

I'm sorry. What about McCain's pastor?

[ScreaminSaint]

Rev Wright= Hillary's Bin Laden

[thinkpad20]

Draeylc-You prove a very valid point, but for the man to sit in his reverands congregation for 20 years, makes it very hard for me to believe that some of the rev's belifs havent rubbed off on Obama. And if obama really disagreed with the reverand as much as he'e been saying lately, chances are he would've joined another church if he was going just for prayer and worship. Just my .02 cents

 

If you understand draeylc's point that religion and politics are totally separate, then you would understand why it's possible to keep on going to the same church even if you disagree with some of the pastor's political positions. Wright was the man who brought Jesus into Obama's life. Now, I'm not religious, but I understand that for those who are, that's a pretty significant event. It's not at all surprising that someone who played such an important role in your life would remain your pastor even if you disagreed with things that they said. If he left his church purely for that reason, it would probably demonstrate more than anything that he was purely a politician doing what it took to get elected. The fact that he stayed, to me, means that he was better than that.

 

Now, I do think that he would have done well to denounce these views (to the extent that he knew about them) long before he did, but I think the idea that the beliefs "rubbed off" on him is a bit ridiculous. First of all Obama is clearly very intelligent and is under no illusions about, for example, where the AIDS virus came from. But more importantly, Obama's whole message stands contrary to that kind of separatist language. That's what's set him apart from the racial soap-box politicians like Sharpton and Jackson, the same as it has set him apart from many of his fellow politicians, Republican and Democrat alike. If Wright's ideas had rubbed off on Obama, he simply would not be where he is now, unless he is simply a phenomenally good actor.

[rushtallica]

Jessie and Al are part of the problem, too.

 

 

Amen.

 

And I agree with those who say that people shouldn't let what his former pastor says be the deciding factor in how they vote, but at the same time if this pastor can't shut up now it's enough to make one wonder how often he spouted too much garbage while Obama was attending service and why Obama would keep going to services like that.

 

Still, I believe overall it's just part of a large smear tactic against Obama, and unless he's kept from being the Democratic Presidential candidate I feel confident I'll be voting for him.

[rushtallica]

Rev Wright= Hillary's Bin Laden

Or Rev Wright = Hillary's future Monica.

[Brick]

If you understand draeylc's point that religion and politics are totally separate, then you would understand why it's possible to keep on going to the same church even if you disagree with some of the pastor's political positions. Wright was the man who brought Jesus into Obama's life. Now, I'm not religious, but I understand that for those who are, that's a pretty significant event. It's not at all surprising that someone who played such an important role in your life would remain your pastor even if you disagreed with things that they said. If he left his church purely for that reason, it would probably demonstrate more than anything that he was purely a politician doing what it took to get elected. The fact that he stayed, to me, means that he was better than that. Now, I do think that he would have done well to denounce these views (to the extent that he knew about them) long before he did, but I think the idea that the beliefs "rubbed off" on him is a bit ridiculous. First of all Obama is clearly very intelligent and is under no illusions about, for example, where the AIDS virus came from. But more importantly, Obama's whole message stands contrary to that kind of separatist language. That's what's set him apart from the racial soap-box politicians like Sharpton and Jackson, the same as it has set him apart from many of his fellow politicians, Republican and Democrat alike. If Wright's ideas had rubbed off on Obama, he simply would not be where he is now, unless he is simply a phenomenally good actor.

I know who you're voting for

[draelyc]

Draeylc-You prove a very valid point, but for the man to sit in his reverands congregation for 20 years, makes it very hard for me to believe that some of the rev's belifs havent rubbed off on Obama. And if obama really disagreed with the reverand as much as he'e been saying lately, chances are he would've joined another church if he was going just for prayer and worship. Just my .02 cents

Except that that simply isn't how churches work, in my 37 years of experience. The two churches I've been a member of since I moved to South Carolina are extremely conservative. And if I were any more left-wing, I'd be off the edge of the map, let's be honest! Sharing basic beliefs -- i.e., elements of faith, core dogma, etc., -- is just not the same thing as sharing political views & agendas.

Should the same religious beliefs lead those who hold those beliefs to come to similar political views? You'd think so. I would actually *hope* so. But unfortunately, as I said, that's not the way I've seen it work, all my life.

But it would be silly, if I were running for president, for folks to question my liberal politics because I'm a member of a very conservative church here in SC.

And it's silly, imvho, for people to *presume* that the stuff coming out of Wright's mouth these days is A) the same stuff that he's been saying consistently for 20 years, when the national spotlight *wasn't* on him, and B) an accurate representation of Obama's beliefs and views, especially given the fact that Wright's most recent statements are in direct contradiction to the evidence of Obama's career thus far...

Sorry for getting a little ... vehement ... there. I apologize if I've offended anyone here. I just don't get it -- it's like people are desperate to find something, ANYTHING they can use to make Obama look like a bad guy. Hmm, I guess that really speaks volumes in and of itself, though, dunnit?

C

[draelyc]

If you understand draeylc's point that religion and politics are totally separate, then you would understand why it's possible to keep on going to the same church even if you disagree with some of the pastor's political positions. Wright was the man who brought Jesus into Obama's life. Now, I'm not religious, but I understand that for those who are, that's a pretty significant event. It's not at all surprising that someone who played such an important role in your life would remain your pastor even if you disagreed with things that they said. If he left his church purely for that reason, it would probably demonstrate more than anything that he was purely a politician doing what it took to get elected. The fact that he stayed, to me, means that he was better than that. Now, I do think that he would have done well to denounce these views (to the extent that he knew about them) long before he did, but I think the idea that the beliefs "rubbed off" on him is a bit ridiculous. First of all Obama is clearly very intelligent and is under no illusions about, for example, where the AIDS virus came from. But more importantly, Obama's whole message stands contrary to that kind of separatist language. That's what's set him apart from the racial soap-box politicians like Sharpton and Jackson, the same as it has set him apart from many of his fellow politicians, Republican and Democrat alike. If Wright's ideas had rubbed off on Obama, he simply would not be where he is now, unless he is simply a phenomenally good actor.

 

 

Well, you just managed to say everything I was trying to, but much more calmly and respectfully.

 

My hat's off to you, sir, and to those I may have offended with my ranting, my apologies.

 

C

[FWAxeIbanez]

P.S... If you think it's "anti-American" to suggest that our foreign policy decisions of the past 60 years could possibly have any international consequences, then -- as other folks have suggested -- you're too ignorant to be voting.

 

 

A little bit of oversimplification here, yes?

[FWAxeIbanez]

If Wright's ideas had rubbed off on Obama, he simply would not be where he is now, unless he is simply a phenomenally good actor.

Once again, the idea of Wright "rubbing off" on Obama leaves me scratching my head...

But I'm even more surprised that you don't consider 90% of all politicians to be actors. It's half the job these days isn't it

[draelyc]

I definitely see what you are saying, but personally I don't think Barack was being brainwashed by Wright for 20 years... Most of the pastor's I've had have made it a point to stay out of politics and stick to religion, that's why I call them my pastors, and not pastors at churches I've visited. My point? You go where you are comfortable in your worship. This is obviously a very politically motivated pastor, and to think that some innocent man, unaware of his reputation, sat down in a pew and in a gradual process became indoctrinated is a bit naive. Obviously Obama was comfortable there, because there are other churches to choose from I'm sure... Chances are, Obama found something he was looking for at Trinity. Obama obviously respects Wright as well. The comments from his wife certainly don't help either... The little things just keep adding up, and I feel people have good reason to question Obama. If his public statements have eased your concerns, then fine. I'm still trying to figure this out myself, but I definitely smell something fishy, and I can't blame anyone else for feeling the same way...

Points taken, and despite the vigor with which I presented my views, I am genuinely curious (i.e., not just looking to argue or shoot down whatever you say) about which things lead you to smell something fishy & why (you mentioned some of that hear, but really just on the surface...). I can respect what you're saying, and certainly we *all* need to be ... cautious ... when it comes to evaluating candidates for our highest office.

I guess what puts me most at ease is the evidence of Obama's career thus far -- he hasn't (like some black leaders) profitted on the rhetoric of divisiveness, entitlement, or retribution, apparently, when it comes to the issue of race. Based on his record, it seems unlikely to me that his personal goal is to "stick it to da Man" for holdin' down da bruthas & sistahs, you know what I mean?

I agree that, to continue to worship there, he must have found something at Trinity with which he connected deeply & personally. I have a hard time believe that that thing was a divisive and combative political vision.

Again, referring to my own church experiece -- one of the amazing things about where I go now is the incredible sense of *community* the place engenders -- a sense of community that doesn't just cross political dividing lines, but seems rather to ignore them outright. Whatever our views are as citizens out in the world, when we're together in the church, we're there to worship and to experience that sense of unity, community, family. That's definitely something that keeps me coming back, regardless of how my priest votes.

I see your point, that someone as intelligent as Obama would have to have had some idea regarding the extremity of some of Wright's views. For me, though, awareness is not endorsement. I can see why the whole thing makes people uncomfortable, but I have trouble seeing why, in so many people's eyes, this is a "disaster" for Obama's campaign.

A little bit of oversimplification here, yes?

Yes, in fact. Just like the assertion that labeling the questioning of the role of America's foreign policy in the emergence of international terrorism as "anti-
American" is a "little bit" of oversimplification.

[BerkleeBill]

Wright will finish off Obama.

Basically, welcome McCain and his 100 year war....

[Aibric]

As a libertarian-minded conservative who happens to be white, I actually don't have that much of a problem what Rev. Wright has said. He uses strong language that is racially charged, but guess what, a lot of black America thinks that way. You can live in politically correct fantasy land all you want, but sooner or later you'll have to face reality. Wright's allegations against the government actually have a lot of substance, but people attack him because they don't like hearing what he has to say. The media won't actually discuss the facts, they just use calculated language and emotion to gloss over it all and make him out to be crazy and racist. I mean, if you have any knowledge of the extent to which our government has done things like experiment on citizens, you know that some of what he has said is just the tip of the iceberg.

The media and others want to attack the man and twist things as they usually do, because they cannot confront the issues he brings up. Honestly, the things Wright talks about should mean more to black America and the people at large than getting a man with black skin into the oval office. If the media was actually doing its job and looking up the facts behind what they dismiss as hate speech and anti-American, what they would then have to present to the American people would probably spur riots in the streets. If even 10% of what he's talking about is true, it should change history. Instead, we're calling him nuts and telling him to shut up so that Obama, who has some of the same people behind his campaign who have actually been behind Bush and the neo-cons, can get into office. Because "its past time we had a black president". What the {censored}.

That is what I have a problem with - this notion that "finally we can have a black president" or "finally we can have a woman as president." Just what the {censored} is that supposed to do or mean? Prove to your guilty white conscience that you aren't racist or sexist? What a bunch of brainwashed PC horse{censored}. I wouldn't have a problem voting for a black man or a woman or whoever so long as its the right person. That sure as hell isn't Obama. It sure as hell isn't Hillary. It sure as hell isn't McCain.

[17 Tubes]

I don't look at Obama as being the crowning achievement of a back presidential candidate.

 

Hell Condoleeza Rice has more cred than Obama... WTFF.

 

 

 

Colin Powell

 

 

Bill freakin Cosby.

 

 

And I'm just getting started...of the top of my head.

 

 

 

And we think this cheer leading hypocrite is th right guy? Because he's black...horray!

 

 

 

If you think he's the best candidate...and/or you are just playing into the system...fine. Vote your conscience.

[FWAxeIbanez]

And what, pray tell, in all of OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN, suggests that he even remotely entertains, much less actually believes, any of that bull{censored}? Hengh?

 

 

It's not necessarily all about the campaign's official statements... That's just a propaganda operation for any politician regardless of party. People like to get a feel for a candidate beyond the cleverly worded soundbytes and website postings...

 

It's undeniable that Obama is an ambitious and intelligent man, so he would have to recognize that a person holding these types of beliefs is unelectable, correct? Let's not pretend that he would say he agreed, publicly, if that was the case

 

This doesn't mean automatically that he's guilty of these beliefs, it's just a reason to hold him under the microscope until we satisfy our own concerns.

[Aibric]

Wright will finish off Obama. Basically, welcome McCain and his 100 year war....

 

 

Considering that Obama has arch globalist Zbigniew Brezinski behind his campaign, I doubt we're going to see a foreign policy of peace or non-intervention from Obama. Obama has not said he would bring the troops home immediately. Obama has not said we should stop nation-building. The democrats are actually the people who gave us America as an empire. Obama has, when it suited him, talked like a war hawk. This is just more of the same, and if he or Hillary is elected the wars they get us into will be rationalized by democrats just like Bush's war is rationalized by republicans.

 

I would be all for Obama if he was out there talking about limiting the power of the presidency again, putting back to its constitutional limits. He hasn't. I would be all for him if his vague "change" had anything to do with increasing liberty. Instead, its all about more power to the central government. He's not going to give up the power the presidency has gained to wage war without going to Congress or any of the other numerous powers our last couple presidents invented for themselves. If he was talking about real issues instead of promising "change" and more handouts, I might think differently of him.

[FWAxeIbanez]

I agree that, to continue to worship there, he must have found something at Trinity with which he connected deeply & personally. I have a hard time believe that that thing was a divisive and combative political vision.

 

 

I have no problem sharing a church with people who would disagree with my opinions on politics. We aren't talking about healthcare or taxes here tho... these are some pretty radical beliefs that don't represent any type of majority among the faithful... It confuses me that an intelligent person with political aspirations would be comfortable hearing anti-american, anti-white, conspiracy theories for 20 years... Let alone let this man marry you, and baptize your kids.

[FWAxeIbanez]

That is what I have a problem with - this notion that "finally we can have a black president" or "finally we can have a woman as president." Just what the {censored} is that supposed to do or mean? Prove to your guilty white conscience that you aren't racist or sexist? What a bunch of brainwashed PC horse{censored}. I wouldn't have a problem voting for a black man or a woman or whoever so long as its the right person. That sure as hell isn't Obama. It sure as hell isn't Hillary. It sure as hell isn't McCain.

Amen... I'm sick of this too... Man, Woman, Purple, or Blue, I don't care how our next president pee's or looks, I am just tired of voting for the lesser of the evils

[damnuandurdog]

If you think he's the best candidate...and/or you are just playing into the system...fine. Vote your conscience.

 

 

Cool, thanks, I will. If you ever feel like learning how to construct a coherent argument then please, feel free.

[FWAxeIbanez]

Cool, thanks, I will. If you ever feel like learning how to construct a coherent argument then please, feel free.

[oldmanriver]

Just like they did in 2000 and 2004. Looks like they're going for the trifecta.

 

 

I was telling a co-worker today...

 

The Democrats are getting really good at blowing elections they should have easily won.

[Veyron]

I hate to have to point this out, but the f * king joke is that so few people seem to realize that NOT EVERYBODY GOES TO CHURCH A) AS A POLITICAL ACTIVITY, AND/OR B) AS A SOURCE OF POLITICAL VIEWS! While it is true that one's religion can, does, and SHOULD have a formative and profound affect upon one's particular political platforms and agendas, ONE GOES TO CHURCH TO PRAY AND WORSHIP! NOT TO LEARN POLITICS!!! I've gone to church my whole life, and I have no problem "revealing" to people the churches I've attended and which priests were rectors at those churches while I attended there. BUT GUESS WHAT? MY POLITICAL VIEWS ARE OFTEN TIMES MARKEDLY DIFFERENT THAN THE VIEWS OF THE PRIESTS WHOSE SERMONS I'VE LISTENED TO FOR YEARS!!! It's really NOT that difficult a concept. Two people can be of the same faith and yet still see the world in very different ways. Duh! So, the only conclusion I can come to is that the folks who seem to think that Obama spent the past two decades calmly and willingly being POLITICALLY indoctrinated by this pastor at this church MUST NOT HAVE ANY CLUE WHAT GOING TO CHURCH IS REALLY LIKE, in either a white, black, or PURPLE congregation! Geez, LOUEEEEZE, people! P.S... If you think it's "anti-American" to suggest that our foreign policy decisions of the past 60 years could possibly have any international consequences, then -- as other folks have suggested -- you're too ignorant to be voting.

Horse{censored}

[Veyron]

I'm sorry. What about McCain's pastor?

 

What about him? Is he spouting off racist, anti-American rhetoric?

[Veyron]

If Wright's ideas had rubbed off on Obama, he simply would not be where he is now, unless he is simply a phenomenally good actor.

 

Wrong. That's the thing, nobody knows jack {censored} about him. We are, however, finding out more and more about him every day. You can't "act" like someone else forever. Eventually the true you comes out. Take Michelle Obama for example, she outright admits that she's not proud to be American, she only started feeling proud once her husband started his presidential campaign. Now, how in the world would Michelle pick up that kind of attitude towards her own country? I can't figure it out, because according to you, people don't listen to their pastors.

[mhenson42]

Well then {censored} you and your family. Good day, sir.