New CLIP: MIC or Bust! (aka: impulses shmimpulses): VHT Content

[kinggeoff]

:oSo I got to borrow an SM58 (though I really want to try a 57) today in the hopes that I might be able to mic up my rig for the first time to do some clips.

 

My problem here at my place has always been volume levels, since I live in an apartment building. After some help from forumite Rear Naked regarding DI recording, I thought going direct in and using impulses as cabinet sims might end up decent enough that I would not need mics.

 

I got some decent results but in the end I wasn't hearing in the recordings enough of what the amp sounds like in the room through the power section and cab.

 

 

 

 

 

So I just threw the mic up in front of the speaker, a little off axis, a few cm away from the cap, and I was surprised by how decent the guitar sounded recorded even before I could get my mixing paws on the track. So I threw together some drums, and laid down a single guitar track, without any eqs or anything. The drums got some compression treatment, and the overall mix was compressed a touch

 

No boosts

 

VHT UL [half power mode] ch2 (Crunch) through VHT FB412 cab (p50e, front loaded)

 

Shure SM58 into M-Audio Firewire410 soundcard

 

EZD DFH for drums

 

MP3

NETMUSICIANS.ORG LINK

 

 

Can't wait to get into the EQ and mess around with different mic positions, double tracking...throw in some bass...good times now that I know that low volume recordings can turn out ok through a mic

[ParryPerson]

k now I want VHT UL

 

 

thx.

 

 

a-hole

[Mavesicles]

omfg

[riffhead]

the sm58 clip sounds badass. with some mic position tweaking and such, you could get that thing sounded even more amazing. great job. the UL sounds great.

[Rear Naked]

mics R gud

[kinggeoff]

mics R gud

 

I was actually reading what you were saying the other day about how you were always fighting with impulses (i was doing the same thing), but as soon as you would throw a mic up it would sound 10 times better...

 

that's why I ended up borrowing the mic

 

 

worked out well for low volume

[Rear Naked]

I was actually reading what you were saying the other day about how you were always fighting with impulses (i was doing the same thing), but as soon as you would throw a mic up it would sound 10 times better... that's why I ended up borrowing the mic worked out well for low volume

 

The thing is, I have heard impulse vs miced amp comparisons...i think 5150....and they sounded 99% identical

[kinggeoff]

The thing is, I have heard impulse vs miced amp comparisons...i think 5150....and they sounded 99% identical

 

I guess we just suck as teh impulses. It always takes me like an hour just to settle on something i find "decent" and then tweak from there. I also don't have a good p50e impulse...

 

Maybe the difficulties we're having stem from the impulses we're using. They're recorded by other dudes using other power sections, cab constructions, speakers... let alone mic placement. So we'll never really find an impulse to match our setups unless we record the impulse ourselves...and that's a whole other headache lol

[Rear Naked]

Maybe we should make our own with our power sections and mic placement:idea:

[kinggeoff]

Maybe we should make our own with our power sections and mic placement:idea:

 

It's wayyyyy easier to just throw a mic up lol. I don't want to get knee deep in the exact process of recording impulses...sending from a good quality source, blah blah damn

[Rear Naked]

i know me neither

 

 

i dont have a cab though...not right now anyway

[kinggeoff]

i know me neither i dont have a cab though...not right now anyway

 

Need impulses? pm me

 

 

 

also, I was reading up, and apparently a lot of guys use CURVE EQ (voxengo) to add pre impulse eq treatment. I even hear there are impulses, or impulse like EQ curves that you can DL and plug into curve EQ to recreate lost poweramp nuances etc...

[metalfanat1c]

Sounds killer.

[riffy]

The thing is, I have heard impulse vs miced amp comparisons...i think 5150....and they sounded 99% identical

 

Same here... I have heard some impulses that I personally couldn't tell from a cab for any amount of money.

[Aibric]

Sounds really good as a raw recording just to hear the amp. Tweak some of that boomy low end out of there so a bass guitar could fit in the mix and that's some nice crunchy tone! I've never seen nor even heard one of these amps before, or P50E's. So many different things out there, yet all you can find in a store are Recto's, JVM's, JSX's and Vintage 30 or G12T loaded cabs. Its a shame.

[kinggeoff]

Sounds really good as a raw recording just to hear the amp. Tweak some of that boomy low end out of there so a bass guitar could fit in the mix and that's some nice crunchy tone! I've never seen nor even heard one of these amps before, or P50E's. So many different things out there, yet all you can find in a store are Recto's, JVM's, JSX's and Vintage 30 or G12T loaded cabs. Its a shame.

 

Yeah VHT stuff is a little harder to find, unfortunately. great amps and cabs

[OverDriven]

I can't listen to the clip at the moment, but will later. I'm sure it rocks.

 

Here is the thing about impulses vs. miced amp. It very much depends on the way you get the signal. Taking the signal from a preamp output (like the effects send) is not going to be ideal. The signal never hits the phase inverter or the power tubes, both of which have a huge impact on the sound. You are basically cutting the balls off of the amp. If your amp has a "recording output", it is often better, but still not ideal. What you want is to use an attenuator with a line output. If you aren't doing that, it's not really a fair comparison, and is basically like plugging the preamp into a very clean solid state amp and then into a speaker cab. Obviously much of your tone would be lost.

[kinggeoff]

 

I can't listen to the clip at the moment, but will later. I'm sure it rocks. Here is the thing about impulses vs. miced amp. It very much depends on the way you get the signal. Taking the signal from a preamp output (like the effects send) is not going to be ideal. The signal never hits the phase inverter or the power tubes, both of which have a huge impact on the sound. You are basically cutting the balls off of the amp. If your amp has a "recording output", it is often better, but still not ideal. What you want is to use an attenuator with a line output. If you aren't doing that, it's not really a fair comparison, and is basically like plugging the preamp into a very clean solid state amp and then into a speaker cab. Obviously much of your tone would be lost.

 

 

Definitely a good point. The impulses are recorded through the power section of an amp though (which ever amp is trying to be modeled) so there is some poweramp tone there...

 

I've often heard the guys with best results use an eq agent like Curve EQ before the deconvolver to mimic the colouration that specific poweramps give... though in the end, as you said, it's still no substitute. and an attenuator would give far superior results

[Rear Naked]

 

I can't listen to the clip at the moment, but will later. I'm sure it rocks. Here is the thing about impulses vs. miced amp. It very much depends on the way you get the signal. Taking the signal from a preamp output (like the effects send) is not going to be ideal. The signal never hits the phase inverter or the power tubes, both of which have a huge impact on the sound. You are basically cutting the balls off of the amp. If your amp has a "recording output", it is often better, but still not ideal. What you want is to use an attenuator with a line output. If you aren't doing that, it's not really a fair comparison, and is basically like plugging the preamp into a very clean solid state amp and then into a speaker cab. Obviously much of your tone would be lost.

 

 

The impulses already replicate the poweramp, theoretically.

[Rear Naked]

I dont mean to hijack, but here is my latest impulse try with the JCM800

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=565745&songID=6667347

 

 

not bad:o

 

 

actually....here is an old clip of my Orange

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=565745&songID=6677061

 

i was going to for the same tone and type of riff obviously

 

I think they sound kinda similar.

[ENdtime]

Water... I need water...

 

Damn are those dry sounding amps. I guess the distortion has a nice character, but {censored} did that sound dry..

[Chrisjd]

that sounds friggin awesome man, very in your face, punchy and aggressive. Just the way I like it!

[JamesPeters]

 

The impulses already replicate the poweramp, theoretically.

 

 

A bit. Impulses won't re-generate any sort of dynamic response and that includes the distortion and compression in a poweramp. They'll only capture the general EQ of the device at the time, and that's not a huge element of the impulse file (especially when it can be removed, such as someone using too much "depth" when creating an impulse: just add a high-pass and it's as though the EQ of the poweramp never existed). The speaker coloration is most of it, the mic's EQ is the next important thing, and everything else is a distant third.

[trey85stang]

 

I guess we just suck as teh impulses. It always takes me like an hour just to settle on something i find "decent" and then tweak from there. I also don't have a good p50e impulse... Maybe the difficulties we're having stem from the impulses we're using. They're recorded by other dudes using other power sections, cab constructions, speakers... let alone mic placement. So we'll never really find an impulse to match our setups unless we record the impulse ourselves...and that's a whole other headache lol

 

 

since you have a mic... buy pristine space, crank it up just one time and make a couple of impulses of your power section and speakers and cab. Then you should be good to go with impulses.

 

edit: you need voxengo deconvolver to create impusles... not pristine space.

[trey85stang]

 

A bit. Impulses won't re-generate any sort of dynamic response and that includes the distortion and compression in a poweramp. They'll only capture the general EQ of the device at the time, and that's not a huge element of the impulse file (especially when it can be removed, such as someone using too much "depth" when creating an impulse: just add a high-pass and it's as though the EQ of the poweramp never existed). The speaker coloration is most of it, the mic's EQ is the next important thing, and everything else is a distant third.

 

 

All that is good info, but impulses are great when any type of volume or vibrations are out of the question.