Lyrics...Music. How does it all start?

[LeonardScaper]

How does it work for you guys?

 

I'm seeing a lot of lyrics posted and I can't help but wonder where the music comes in.

 

I'm a writer....unpublished novels and short stories, but I can't just write lyrics. My songs generally come to me with a melody. In fact, I can't just sit down and 'write a song'. I need to hear it in my head.

 

Even then, some of my best lyrics come after I have written a verse/chorus and I'm in the recording stage.

 

I feel it as a dynamic process, one that has to 'be' right for the tune to really work.

 

A lot of serious songwriters here........how does it work for you guys?

[i5awesome]

Its real life stuff... Just think about something that has affected you a lot, something you went through that really got you to the core. Try to express it with what you think would be the best way to interpret it so people would feel your emotions.

[LeonardScaper]

My songs all come in some manner from just that real life emotion. I just lost my landscaping business of 13 years.That was a sudden change and all it left me with.....was a pretty cool new tune.

 

It's just that, at least for me, lyrics witout music feel a bit like prose. And I say that with a lot of respect for those of you who can sit down and write lyrics that eventually work beautifully with music.

[blue2blue]

I almost always have some vague music in my head when I'm writing lyrics -- even if it's simply a stand-in for what might end up being there eventually. For me, it's integral to the rhythm of the words and their delivery.

 

It's rare when I don't have a guitar in my hand when I'm writing. Even when I was doing mostly electronic music, I would typically write with a guitar.

 

In fact, around 1999 or 2000 I collaborated with a young cyber kid from the UK who heard my stuff on mp3.com and asked me to write lyrics and do vocals on a 142 bpm acid techno thing. I ended up writing the song in a very old-fashioned manner. (And, in fact, I initially wrote it as a I-vi-IV-V 'classic' rock and roll kind of thing, despite the fact I knew I'd have to be pretty much spewing out a fast rap.)

[3rd_harmonic]

while not a serious songwriter - nor even a "songwriter" except to the extent that people that make bacon and eggs in the morning are "chefs" - I do get little nuggets of songs now and then. They all come from experiences. I need to tap into some rich experiences from my past someday. But lately whatever little tunes and lyrics I come up with are from recent experience. I do struggle with the difference between a good song and a song faithful to my actual experience. I know that "good songs" might only faintly resemble an actual experience, but my songwriting is mostly theraputic at this stage and, as such, it needs to express my actual experience in order for it to be effective. I hope to pull myself off the therapy wagon and let the song live in its own world, somewhat independent from the constraints and baggage that my personal experience brings.

[Marko]

I

[blue2blue]

I let the emotion drive my songwriting -- not the facts of a situation. I'm not writing autobiography with my songs (at least not by intent) though most grow out of my life. I'm trying to capture the poetic truth (as it were) in whatever motivated me. So, if that means the protagonist in the song is a homeless guy who won't talk to anyone or a professional hit man on the run, then that's where the song goes... they're both, on some level, expressions of some sort of emotion (actually, perhaps, quite similar deep down now that I think about it). If it means the protagonist is an ex-recording engineer turned database developer, I'll write that one, too. (Someday. Maybe. )

[3rd_harmonic]

B2B,

I'll wait for the movie... Pulp Schema.

 

or the book Decibels to Databases

 

[blue2blue]

Or wait for my series of murder mysteries, featuring a brave and handsome database developer turned recording engineer hero. (I decided that arc was a bit more romantic... make that -- considering today's studio economics -- heroic. )

[rsadasiv]

Or wait for my series of murder mysteries, featuring a brave and handsome database developer turned recording engineer hero. (I decided that arc was a bit more romantic... make that -- considering today's studio economics -- heroic. )

 

Check out Kinky Friedman's series of murder mysteries.

[voxfreak]

as you keep practicing, your songwriting evolves. I used to just sit with a pen and paper and write things and try to make them into a song and failed epicly. Now im at the point where I hear music just blaring in my head and lyrics pop out. The other day i was getting off the bus and walking back to my dorm and i randomly burst out singing these lyrics to a melody and it was pretty cool. Check back soon and itll be recorded

[oldnewbie]

When I feel the inspiration to write (which hasn't visited in a while) I'll sit w/ my acoustic guitar and start playing chords. Sometimes I have an idea of what I want to write about and look for chords to set the mood. Other times I just wait for an interesting melody to come along and the lyrics just start coming.

 

As far as content, some of my songs are autobiographical and others are pure fiction. There is also some overlap: I may be writing a song from an experience and add some off the wall fictional stuff to it OR I may be writing a fictional song and add some personal stuff to it.

[3rd_harmonic]

posting here is a good thing too.

A song I started - "a different kind of love" - got some comments and as I tried to integrate the comments iinto the song - accepting some more than others for that particular song - the song evolved. I was still so thoroughly dissatisfied that I decided to can the verses but keep the chorus, and the harmony. But the chorus didn't fit the new lyrics. So I'm getting a whole new song I think.

[LeonardScaper]

Now im at the point where I hear music just blaring in my head and lyrics pop out.

 

[blue2blue]

 

Check out Kinky Friedman's series of murder mysteries.

 

I read the first one. I think The Parrot Head guy has a mystery series, too. I don't know if the hero is himself, though, like Kinky's.

[LeonardScaper]

A couple times I tried to fit existing lyrics to new music, but it didn

[Cripes]

 

How does it work for you guys? I'm seeing a lot of lyrics posted and I can't help but wonder where the music comes in. I'm a writer....unpublished novels and short stories, but I can't just write lyrics. My songs generally come to me with a melody. In fact, I can't just sit down and 'write a song'. I need to hear it in my head. Even then, some of my best lyrics come after I have written a verse/chorus and I'm in the recording stage. I feel it as a dynamic process, one that has to 'be' right for the tune to really work. A lot of serious songwriters here........how does it work for you guys?

 

 

I do as you do. The melody (music) seems to develop into words by itself. It definitely sets the mood and meter which in a sense narrows the subject of the lyrics and tone. The other way around is backwards for me. But, at this point I have written many, many melodies each with it's own personality. There are times when I read (posted) lyrics and almost instantly hear it wrapped around one of my melodies.

 

I think a person has to be either very good with his/her chosen musical instrument and have a ready repertoire of melodies waiting for lyrics, be a person who has melodies floating around in his/her head but not particularly skilled as a musician, or is just plain gifted as both musician and lyricist.

 

The writing team of Elton John and Bernie Taupin showed Bernie to be a gifted lyricist. Elton must have had ready melodies either in his repertoire or they simply came to him after reading Bernie's lyrics.

 

You relate to the dynamic of writing as a follow-on activity of music-then-lyrics. That, again, is what works best for me. I have written lyrics (poems, etc.) that I want to set to music but the problem comes in the realization that the lyrics are complete as they are. There's already a sense of satisfaction there and the motivation to compose the score is to a good extent diminished. There is, of course, the desire to score them that they may be sung as intended but that desire isn't as great as it should be for the reason mentioned. However, a score written specifically for a song that doesn't have lyrics is completely different in spirit for me. I write lyrics to complement and compliment the melody because the melody to me is the single most important aspect of any song. Having a melody I'm proud of begets lyrics of the same measure.

[Music Calgary]

I tend to start noodling until I find a simple but catchy riff -- as I repeat it a melody always comes to mind quickly, which I plug "nonsense" words into -- then I just keep repeating and ironing out the melody and words as I go. I fire it all down on my D888 and/or dry erase board then take it to the computer later and fine tune everything.

 

Then I like to collaborate with someone else who comes in and adds their flare. That usually creates the twist I want.

 

The older I get the more I realize making *really* great music is all about working with others. Synergy.

 

"Great music does not get created in a vacuum. It ain't going to happen."

- Eddie Kramer

[LeonardScaper]

 

Having a melody I'm proud of begets lyrics of the same measure.

 

 

I have had a few where the melody became to strong for the lyrics. Can't be afraid to include an instrumental on the project.

 

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5052625

[yenerich]

Personally, i always start with the melody and music and just after that, when i feel something listening to the music, i write the lirycs listeining once and ojnce again the music to notice which kind of feeling it makes my feel.

 

I know some other people does different, nut i only can do it by this way.

[IanAlderman]

Sometimes, for me the words just come out. I may not be intentionally be dwelling on something that has happened in the past, but what comes out happends to describe something that has happened. I for one can't just say, "I'm going to write some sappy emo song" or whatever- sometimes the chords help out with setting the mood and words just spew out of my mouth as a result of the noodling on the acoustic.

 

Other times, with regards to music, it starts by trying to figure out someone else's music, and then something comes out by varying the chords, or messing with the timing or whatever.

 

It's been said a lot on this thread and I'll say it again, experience is the deepest inkwell when it comes to writing.

 

I hope this helps out, even though it seems to be rehashing what nearly everyone else here has stated.

[Cripes]

 

I have had a few where the melody became to strong for the lyrics. Can't be afraid to include an instrumental on the project. http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5052625

 

 

Oh, no doubt. I've plenty of those. We're talking mutually complimentary though.

[myredshoes]

I let the emotion drive my songwriting -- not the facts of a situation. I'm not writing autobiography with my songs (at least not by intent) though most grow out of my life. I'm trying to capture the poetic truth (as it were) in whatever motivated me. So, if that means the protagonist in the song is a homeless guy who won't talk to anyone or a professional hit man on the run, then that's where the song goes... they're both, on some level, expressions of some sort of emotion (actually, perhaps, quite similar deep down now that I think about it). If it means the protagonist is an ex-recording engineer turned database developer, I'll write that one, too . (Someday. Maybe. )

 

Agree. If I were to actually write about a specific person or situation in my life, I think in some cases the person would just come around and kick my ass. So the song might be stimulating to them, but not to anyone else. While all of what I write is to/for/about specific individuals or my own experience of them it is an artistic mistake as well as (as I understand it) a violation of social contract to become overly specific.

I could write a song called Daisy at the Liquor Store Across the Street From My Apartment, for example, probably will, since she tells an interesting story, but I would not call it that. Even for purposes of the preceeding sentence I have changed both her name and the type of store where she works.

 

Really what captures imaginations is depiction of situations and feelings we all share. The Killing Me Softly thing.

 

Let's take another Carly Simon song as an example:

 

You're So Vain likely would not have realized the extensive and long-term airplay it has if it had named names. There was a game of trying to figure out who it was about because of the way Carly Simon's celebrity eclipsed her stature as an artist in the public view. I believe however that the primary strength of the song was the huge number of self-absorbed people it could be imagined to describe. The song despite its Lear jets and other showy descriptives appealed to everyone who had to deal with these type folks. The names have gotten old, but the situation never will.

 

Brilliant hook- "...you prob'ly think this song is about you..."

[rsadasiv]

Let's take another Carly Simon song as an example: You're So Vain likely would not have realized the extensive and long-term airplay it has if it had named names. There was a game of trying to figure out who it was about because of the way Carly Simon's celebrity eclipsed her stature as an artist in the public view. I believe however that the primary strength of the song was the huge number of self-absorbed people it could be imagined to describe. The song despite its Lear jets and other showy descriptives appealed to everyone who had to deal with these type folks. The names have gotten old, but the situation never will. Brilliant hook- "...you prob'ly think this song is about you..."

 

I just got done reading "Girls Like Us - Carole King, Joni Mitchell and Carly Simon". It's a pretty bad book, but it got me thinking about Carly Simon (and You're So Vain in particular). I've always liked the song, but I'm not sure if the lyrics are brilliant, retarded, or both. I mean, honestly:

 

You walked into the party

Like you were walking onto a yacht

Your hat strategically dipped below one eye

Your scarf it was apricot

You had one eye in the mirror

As you watched yourself gavotte

 

I know you've sort of painted yourself into a corner with yacht, but piling on the difficulties with apricot and then gavotte seems ill-conceived.

[myredshoes]

"gavotte"? I always thought it was "cavort"

 

 

I bet "apricot" was "ascot" in draft 17...