monotone or harmary backing vox

[Boydog]

so, when recording monotone backing vox shouldn't it be in harmony with the lead vox?

also, would it be better to record the backing in full harmony instead of monotone?

[Chicken Monkey]

I'm not sure "monotone" means what you think it means.

[Boydog]

 

I'm not sure "monotone" means what you think it means.

 

 

I'm refering to singing without varying the pitch, no rise and fall of the vox,

[Chicken Monkey]

Then I'm not sure what you're asking. You're singing the entire background part on one note, and you're asking 1) should that one note be in harmony with the main vocal line, and 2) would you be better off NOT singing in monotone? I'd say yes to both of those, I guess. If you're going to sing on one note only for some reason, you'd be best off picking your one note from the key the song is in. Depending on the chord progression, you're probably best off using the root or the 5th note for a monotone background vocal.

[blue2blue]

 

I'm refering to singing without varying the pitch, no rise and fall of the vox,

 

 

Well... that is monotone, all rightie. I'm suspectin' that CM, like me, reading the first post thought you were asking about unison singing, which is where the accompaniment singers sing the same melody as the lead vocal.

 

Although, depending on context, you may hear people describe b/u vox as unison if all the back up singers are singing the same note at any given time, but the back up part is not the same as the main melody. And you will also find materials that suggest full unison ensemble singing is a form of harmony singing, even though everyone is singing the same note, even though when most of us think of harmony, we're thinking of the laws of harmonic interaction that define chords. There is also contrapuntal singing, where the accompaniment sings in counterpoint -- a secondary melody that moves independently from the main melody (whereas a harmony melody will generally track the main melody according to the harmonic principles governing the chosen harmonic interval).

[Boydog]

I guess what I'm getting at is picking a harmony, let's say a third up, of the first note of the lead vox and holding that throughout the line sang, therefore giving a harmonic whenever the lead vox sings that same note again but not thoughout the entire line.

if that makes sense.

I've heard it before (can't remember where) and it seemed to work really well but seems to take a lot of work to keep it together.

[Chicken Monkey]

I'd have to hear an example to know what you're talking about.

[Stackabones]

Perhaps you're talking about some kind of pedal point?

[Boydog]

 

I'd have to hear an example to know what you're talking about.

 

 

I'm doing some resource trying to find a song with this in it, think of it as how Ben Stein talks, no emotion, no ups or downs in the sentence, just one straight tone thru out,, ya know,, boring :poke:

however, when sang against a lead vox it adds something unique to the delivery of the lyric giving it a certain appeal different than the usual harmony

[dearsaef]

I think this is enough .....

I do agree with you. Those are the most effective way

[Boydog]

For example: The lead singer does the line in a fashion similar to an AC sine wave as below:

 

 

.................Me......fa.........................do

.........Re....................so..............ra

Do.................................la.....te

 

 

The monotone would be straight thru as below: backup singing the same words just without varying the pitch of each word to match the true harmony.

 

me.....fa.....so.....la.....te.....ra.....do

 

The only other I can explain it is to do it and post on my site and link here.

[Lee Knight]

 

For example: The lead singer does the line in a fashion similar to an AC sine wave as below: .................Me......fa.........................do .........Re....................so..............ra Do.................................la.....te The monotone would be straight thru as below: backup singing the same words just without varying the pitch of each word to match the true harmony. me.....fa.....so.....la.....te.....ra.....do The only other I can explain it is to do it and post on my site and link here.

 

 

 

The "fa" and "la" etc. are seperate pitches. If the 3 lines also convey pitches:

 

 

.................Me......fa.........................do

.........Re....................so..............ra

Do.................................la.....te

 

...then we're not on the same track here at all. Are you refering to pitch? Notes? Do Re Mi's? Or are you refering to style? To delivery?

[Bodyguard2112]

I thought I understood it until THIS post. Now I'm REALLY confused.

 

I'm not musically trained but I know that those words "do re me" etc refer to SPECIFIC notes, and so to use them as a sample lyric that is supposed to be "monotone" is really confusing to me.

 

How about making a soundclick file to show what you mean?

 

 

 

 

 

For example: The lead singer does the line in a fashion similar to an AC sine wave as below: .................Me......fa.........................do .........Re....................so..............ra Do.................................la.....te The monotone would be straight thru as below: backup singing the same words just without varying the pitch of each word to match the true harmony. me.....fa.....so.....la.....te.....ra.....do The only other I can explain it is to do it and post on my site and link here.

 

[Chicken Monkey]

 

How about making a soundclick file to show what you mean?

 

 

It'd be even more useful to give an example of a "real" song that uses this technique. I can't even think of a mainstream song that uses vocal pedal tones off the top of my head, much less whatever Boydog is talking about.

[Boydog]

 

It'd be even more useful to give an example of a "real" song that uses this technique. I can't even think of a mainstream song that uses vocal pedal tones off the top of my head, much less whatever Boydog is talking about.

 

 

I'm really looking for a good example but coming up empty so far.

This isn't a pedal. I'm talking about a human singing .

ya got lead vox, another singing harmony and another singing a monotone

think of it as singing "la" at the same pitch as all the other notes

 

I'll see what I can do with it but ain't making no promises.

The reason I'm posting this here BTW instead of the singers forum is to kinda give songwriters an option with their b/u vox that to me generates a totally feel and sound to the song.

a friend says I should mention this monotone sounds like "robot" talk without the electronics

[Chicken Monkey]

 

This isn't a pedal. I'm talking about a human singing .

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_point

 

It looks like you don't know what a pedal tone is, and, after reading the entry, I didn't have a very complete understanding, either. It may be what you're talking about, though.

[Boydog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_point It looks like you don't know what a pedal tone is, and, after reading the entry, I didn't have a very complete understanding, either. It may be what you're talking about, though.

 

+10000000000 :thu:

That's exactly what I'm talkin about,,, just never heard it called such..

so......... now that we've established what I'm talking about ,,,,

anyone ever tried it ?

[Stackabones]

+10000000000 :thu: That's exactly what I'm talkin about,,, just never heard it called such.. so......... now that we've established what I'm talking about ,,,, anyone ever tried it ?

 

Perhaps I should have linked to wiki?

[Lee Knight]

 

anyone ever tried it ?

 

 

Sure. Pedaling a note, holding a note while others change around it, is a great technique. Think of Please Please Me by The Beatles. You know the one, Please please me oh yeah, like I please you... if you don't, go find it. It's good.

 

As the Wiki states, a pedal is usually in the bass, but not always. Like the Beatles example. Picture the bit at the very top. I don't remember who's John or Paul in this one, this is all by memory so go easy Beatle nuts... but if we're in the key of C (which it's probably not) Paul, let's say, sings that descending line, starting at the top and going down... c b a g a g e a b-a g

 

Last(do) night(ti) I(la) said(sol) these(la) words(sol) to(mi) my(la-ti-la) girl(sol)

 

Same thing on the next line

 

I know you never even try girl

 

The thing is, John sings the same exact words and rhythm but pedals on the "do" or c note.

 

Last(do) night(do) I(do) said(do) these(do) words(do) to(do) my(do) girl(do)

 

So you get...

 

Last(do) night(ti) I(la) said(sol) these(la) words(sol) to(mi) my(la-ti-la) girl(sol)

Last(do) night(do) I(do) said(do) these(do) words(do) to(do) my(do) girl(do)

 

As the Wiki states. A pedal is a chord tone, a note from the chord, C in this case, that remains constant, and as the harmony around it changes, it becomes dissonant, a non-chord note, then back out the other side consonant, a chord tone again.

 

To your original questions:

 

so, when recording monotone backing vox shouldn't it be in harmony with the lead vox?

also, would it be better to record the backing in full harmony instead of monotone?

 

The answer, of course, is... whatever the hell you feel like doing. That's what's great about learning a little theory. You start to recognize what's going on in a song, something you like or don't, and you can either use it, or not. Theory does not dictate the roads you take. Theory is more like having a more powerful vehicle to traverse the roads, or off roads, of your choosing.

 

Pedal points rock. As a bassist, I love the tension and ultimate release of a pedal in the bass too.

[Lee Knight]

To illustrate further and in a different circumstance. One of my favorite production tricks for spicing up a chorus. Let's say the song is in Am. The verse does what ever then the the big chorus comes and... it needs a lift.

 

In Am. I just take a string sound or a B3, etc. and hold a high A (pedal). Right through the changes, whatever they may be. A high A. If the dissonance gets too much on certain chords (pedal), I'll lower or raise the high A to the closest chord tone (not a pedal anymore) but right back to the high A as soon as I can (pedal). Mix it into the track, although it can be surprising loud and you still don't hear it sometimes. You get this nice tension through the chord changes that adds a level of complexity that really was never there. Pedal Point. Pedal Tone. Pedal.

 

The chorus gets a kick in the ass. And you don't even hear it or know why...

[Chicken Monkey]

 

In Am. I just take a string sound or a B3, etc. and hold a high A (pedal). Right through the changes, whatever they may be. A high A. If the dissonance gets too much on certain chords (pedal), I'll lower or raise the high A to the closest chord tone (not a pedal anymore) but right back to the high A as soon as I can (pedal). Mix it into the track, although it can be surprising loud and you still don't hear it sometimes. You get this nice tension through the chord changes that adds a level of complexity that really was never there. Pedal Point. Pedal Tone. Pedal. The chorus gets a kick in the ass. And you don't even hear it or know why...

 

 

I do this all the time, but can't let the tonic play over the V chord, which gives it a suspended sound. I usually drop to the 7th tone or raise to the 2nd, preferably with a pitch wheel or some other "smooth transition".

[A Happy Crowd]

 

Sure. Pedaling a note, holding a note while others change around it, is a great technique. Think of Please Please Me by The Beatles. You know the one, Please please me oh yeah, like I please you... if you don't, go find it. It's good. As the Wiki states, a pedal is usually in the bass, but not always. Like the Beatles example. Picture the bit at the very top. I don't remember who's John or Paul in this one, this is all by memory so go easy Beatle nuts... but if we're in the key of C (which it's probably not) Paul, let's say, sings that descending line, starting at the top and going down... c b a g a g e a b-a g Last(do) night(ti) I(la) said(sol) these(la) words(sol) to(mi) my(la-ti-la) girl(sol) Same thing on the next line I know you never even try girl The thing is, John sings the same exact words and rhythm but pedals on the "do" or c note. Last(do) night(do) I(do) said(do) these(do) words(do) to(do) my(do) girl(do) So you get... Last(do) night(ti) I(la) said(sol) these(la) words(sol) to(mi) my(la-ti-la) girl(sol) Last(do) night(do) I(do) said(do) these(do) words(do) to(do) my(do) girl(do) As the Wiki states. A pedal is a chord tone, a note from the chord, C in this case, that remains constant, and as the harmony around it changes, it becomes dissonant, a non-chord note, then back out the other side consonant, a chord tone again. To your original questions: so, when recording monotone backing vox shouldn't it be in harmony with the lead vox? also, would it be better to record the backing in full harmony instead of monotone? The answer, of course, is... whatever the hell you feel like doing. That's what's great about learning a little theory. You start to recognize what's going on in a song, something you like or don't, and you can either use it, or not. Theory does not dictate the roads you take. Theory is more like having a more powerful vehicle to traverse the roads, or off roads, of your choosing. Pedal points rock. As a bassist, I love the tension and ultimate release of a pedal in the bass too.

 

 

 

Wow, that is really cool. I just listened to Please Please Me and I've never consciously noticed that before. I'm going to have to try to apply this to one of my songs.

 

When I first started reading this thread, I was going to suggest U2's Numb -- the Edge sings a monotone lead while Bono does a melodic backing vocal -- but now I'm pretty sure that's something totally different.

[Boydog]

sure helps to have people around who know what they're talking about huh !!!

thanks guys, that pretty much sums it up for me, knew "almost" what to do just didn't know what it was called or where to find it.