Members Phait Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXi-tHGy5Ks This is inspiring me a lot and I love the vibe and mood of it. I want to approximate it, but I don't want it to seem derivative or over-inspired. What have you done in such case? Any similar songs I can listen to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 I always give up and write the song I'm meant to write at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LeonardScaper Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 Good question. When something catches my ear I let it infuse my playing for a while and see if something original comes from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2009 Tear it apart. Start learning what makes it tick. What are the chords? You said you play guitar a little I believe. Try and nail the chords to the verse first. It's in a minor key. Now, if you take it apart a bit you'll see it's very simple but very effective. If it's in Am (can't tell just listening) then it starts on Em and basically just runs up the minor scale. Play the chords over and over to get a feel... now... ...just play the vocal melody on your guitar. Learn it and try to see the relationship between the two. Between the chords and the melody. First just work out what the melody of Everybody has a ghost is. Play it on your guitar. Now... still in the verse, look at the repetition and where and why he breaks from the repetition. everybody has a ghosteverybody has a ghost who sings like you doyours is not like mine (this line is almost same as 1st 2 with small rhythm change)but it's alright, keep it up (this line breaks the cadence and just rushes through for a nice tag on the end of the whole phrase) For the 2nd part of that 1st verse he really breaks off the cadence but still alludes to it. Cool stuff building, he's closing the rhythmic feel of his singing to swell faster into... The Chorus What happens to those chords when they hit the Chorus? Does it change keys? Or does it it just go to the relative minor? From Am to C! But that 2nd chord is a D Major! not a Dm like it's "supposed to be..." On and on. You don't have to get this deep into the analysis but try digging a little deeper than just letting the atmosphere woo you. It's easy to think that it's all reverb, soft focus and fx creating that atmosphere. It's not, it's a solid understanding of how chords work within keys and how to bend rules for effect, etc. So how do you write a song like that but make it your own? Analyze, then put into general terms what''s happening. Then use those general terms to create your own. It won't be the same if you only use your analysis. At the most basic: Verse is in minor and quietChorus goes to the major and gets loud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXi-tHGy5KsThis is inspiring me a lot and I love the vibe and mood of it. I want to approximate it, but I don't want it to seem derivative or over-inspired. What have you done in such case? Any similar songs I can listen to? Just rip it off. Don't worry about being derivative. I mean, are you a professional musician? Are you gonna get sued or have to pay royalties if its a hit? Probably not, right? Then who gives a flip. And who says you have to just write one song that's like it. Write a whole bunch. You'll eventually settle on something that's your own. Didn't you see Finding Forrester? When he starts writing the top of Sean Connery's story? Same idea. I'm serious. Don't worry about being derivative. We're all using the same chords and notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 Also - nothing wrong with an homage.... Bon Jovi has explicitely said he was trying to write "Turn the Page" when he wrote "Wanted Dead or Alive." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k99h5aikc4g Same general idea. Totally different songs. And then you can be inspired musically. Take the Strokes. They were up front about being inspired by American Girl when they wrote their break-through hit, Last Night. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1vvUec71v8 And there are many, many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2009 :)Well... ^^^ that too! The thing is, as you "rip off", you're also analyzing. The word analyzing sounds so anal. Connection maybe? Yeah, so I agree actually. But only with the added advice... Try to disguise it. I invent nothing, I rediscover. Auguste Rodin Nothing is new except arrangement. William J. Durant What is originality? Undetected plagiarism. Dean William R. Inge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 The world is already overflowing with warmed over, imitative stuff that sounds just like everything else. I don't see why folks should be encouraged to make more of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members captain kazoo Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 realize i'll never be able to and play the blues.i'm really good at playing the blues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 realize i'll never be able to and play the blues. i'm really good at playing the blues. Yeah... despite my bravado... I've retreated to bluegrass and folk oriented stuff... But... I'll be back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members captain kazoo Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 sometimes, i want to play a blues song.but i realize i can't so i rewrite a "live" song. it all evens out in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2009 The world is already overflowing with warmed over, imitative stuff that sounds just like everything else. I don't see why folks should be encouraged to make more of it. Yeah but... Don't we all emulate what we love at first? Take apart the clock to learn how to make a better clock? Or a different clock? But at first, you just learn to make clocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 The world is already overflowing with warmed over, imitative stuff that sounds just like everything else. I don't see why folks should be encouraged to make more of it. I disagree. So many people get hung up trying to be fresh and original. Forget about all that stuff. It's all been done. Accept it and move on. Just shoot to be productive and competent. To find your own voice. Who cares if it sounds like everybody else? Coming up with a good song is so tough. I say your chances of writing a decent song are that much better if you pivot off somebody else's winning idea. Those examples I gave above are perfect examples of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 The world is already overflowing with warmed over, imitative stuff that sounds just like everything else. I don't see why folks should be encouraged to make more of it. Better something warmed over on purpose than an obvious rip off with a few strained changes to lend it an air of false newness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted December 3, 2009 Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 I disagree. So many people get hung up trying to be fresh and original. Forget about all that stuff. It's all been done. Accept it and move on. Just shoot to be productive and competent. To find your own voice. Who cares if it sounds like everybody else? Coming up with a good song is so tough. I say your chances of writing a decent song are that much better if you pivot off somebody else's winning idea. Those examples I gave above are perfect examples of that. I hear what you guys are saying, and, as far as learning one's craft, you bet. There's definitely a place for analysis and imitation... And, to the extent that striving for originality is at least sometimes a bit like striving for coolness (if you have to think about it, you probably ain't gonna get there), I'd say, yeah, you bet, just write the best song you can. Fresh is nice... timeless might just be better. (OTOH, a loaf of home-baked bread just out of the oven is fresh but stale in a few days and a Hostess Twinkie is timeless and will last virtually forver... ) But... look at the armies of folks striving -- without the slightest bit of self-consciousness -- to be just like everyone else. And, quality issues aside, largely succeeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2009 I hear what you guys are saying, and, as far as learning one's craft, you bet. There's definitely a place for analysis and imitation... And, to the extent that striving for originality is at least sometimes a bit like striving for coolness (if you have to think about it, you probably ain't gonna get there), I'd say, yeah, you bet, just write the best song you can. Fresh is nice... timeless might just be better. (OTOH, a loaf of home-baked bread just out of the oven is fresh but stale in a few days and a Hostess Twinkie is timeless and will last virtually forver ... ) But... look at the armies of folks striving -- without the slightest bit of self-consciousness -- to be just like everyone else. And, quality issues aside, largely succeeding. I love that post. "And, to the extent that striving for originality is at least sometimes a bit like striving for coolness (if you have to think about it, you probably ain't gonna get there), I'd say, yeah, you bet, just write the best song you can. Fresh is nice... timeless might just be better. (OTOH, a loaf of home-baked bread just out of the oven is fresh but stale in a few days and a Hostess Twinkie is timeless and will last virtually forver... )" Funny and a great point. Originality. What is that? But I think you can strive for it too. I think you're right in that respect. James Dean, Elvis, and John Lennon knew they were cool. They were not born with it. It was an affectation that became. Listen to Lennon on the White album. He says "man" a lot. He conjured up some hip, hippie, beat, groovester that dug it man. And it was him. So I agree with your points on originality. But first, you gotta make a lot of clocks. At least if you intend on really doing something original. I do not believe in the idiot savant. Or rather, the clueless genius. That is an affectation. "Gee shucks, I don't know how I got this good. I guess I was just born this way and didn't work my ass off endlessly learning my craft." That's a snow job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phait Posted December 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2009 Tear it apart. Start learning what makes it tick. What are the chords? You said you play guitar a little I believe. Try and nail the chords to the verse first... (etc.) Hadn't considered that, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeuceyBaby Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Tear it apart. Start learning what makes it tick. Analyze, then put into general terms what''s happening. Then use those general terms to create your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LeonardScaper Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Take it apart.......rip it off wholesale.........use the songs that influence you to fuel your own creativity. Do it at the very least as an exercize. And do it a lot. Later on your own songs will most likely come to you and you may be surprised to hear the echoes of those songs in yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 But... look at the armies of folks striving -- without the slightest bit of self-consciousness -- to be just like everyone else. And, quality issues aside, largely succeeding. That's pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dannysigma Posted December 7, 2009 Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 A cautionary note: there are so many songs now that sound dull and the same because they are all trying to sound quirky and different - these tend to be songs written by people striving to be original rather than writing the song that is inside them. Just write whatever song comes to you. Invariably, it will be filtered through your own sensibilities and will come out sounding like your own song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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