Members thomasterrible Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 I have an Ashdown Fallen Angel 180 watt all tube head.It originally came with four 12ax7 preamp tubes and six JJ EL34 Power tubes.It was a real monster and I have it hooked up to a mesa rect oversized slant top can which is perfect with it. It did have a bunch of hiss when the gain was cranked and the guitar was not playing but that is what every amp I have played does. Otherwise it was a real monster and had this heavy saturated sinister sound that I just loved to hear. Well I was dumb enough to try a THD hotplate on this just to see what it would do and I found out that what it would do is fry my amp inside of 2 minutes. I contacted THD that is in the same city as me asking them where to take the hot plate and my amp to determine why this happened, they never replied back they are a shady company and dont care if they damage your gear. So I contacted the only place I knew of for amp repair nearby and in speaking to them they said they were no longer using JJ tubes because they were unstable and unreliable. Turns out later that all the amp shops agreed that JJ's were junk but still I was not trying to mod my amp just get it to work stock again. Finally someone told me about a shop that is 30 minutes away and the owner/tech spoke to me on the phone and then in person for about an hour and actually figured out what was wrong with it while I was there. So it needed all new tubes and he installed a bias adjuster as it was a fixed bias amp. The plate voltage of this amp is running around 500VDC. He set the bias at I believe -47v. He gave me a few choices of tubes and is a big Groove Tube fanatic and with Fender buying them out everything he told me made perfect sense so I do trust him. I did not know much about any of the tubes but basically I was told that the 6L6GE's were about the best tube one could buy and it would give more of an "American" sound than a "British" one. So he installed all the tubes and the bias adjust and when I got it home there is now a problem. Things like unwanted noise are much lower now and I think he did good work, he said that it was made of good parts and was better than any mesa or splawn, Rivera, Soldono or etc etc. and that it was a serious amp with serious transformers etc, with the combination of the amp itself and the mods that he made to it. That is subjective but still sounds good but he truly believes it and even stock I think that what he said was the case which is why I bought it.** NOW the problem is that the amp does not have enough gain. It used to have so much gain that it would feedback if not at least 20 feet away on full gain, the Ashdown manual even suggests not using active pups as it would lead to uncotrolled feedback. Well it has a nice tone to it but it is FAR from the metal monster it is supposed to be and that the amp repair guy told me it would be. In fact when I asked him about playing metal he said that was probably what it would be best at. I am of course going to call him first thing tomorrow but can anyone suggest why this has occured? The different tubes? The bias adjustment? Preamp tubes? It is loud as hell I have not got it past 3 but I need my crunchy gain back. Suggestions for someone with experience please! Thanks Much, Tom:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NaturalBornBoy Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 How in the hell does using a Hotplate fry your amp??? I used one for years with nor trouble at all! I call user error on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members magh8 Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 you know something.I think this is the first fallen angel 180 thread i have read on HC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NaturalBornBoy Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 He gave me a few choices of tubes and is a big Groove Tube fanatic and with Fender buying them out everything he told me made perfect sense so I do trust him. Why does this make 'perfect' sense??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JPIndustrie Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Uh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knucklefux Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 THD is anything but shady. your amp tech is a moron. fender buying out GT doesn't make them good tubes. anybody who knows anything about tubes knows that GTs are just relabeled tubes from overseas...basically no better than any other tube brand out there. he's probably a GT dealer, which is why he thinks they're so much better. i doubt the power tube swap is responsible for the lack of gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NaturalBornBoy Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 your amp tech is a moron. fender buying out GT doesn't make them good tubes. anybody who knows anything about tubes knows that GTs are just relabeled tubes from overseas...basically no better than any other tube brand out there. he's probably a GT dealer, which is why he thinks they're so much better. This and +1,000,000 to THD not being a shady operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JPIndustrie Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 This and +1,000,000 to THD not being a shady operation. This, and did you make sure you plugged everything into the right inputs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thomasterrible Posted October 25, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 I have not had one single response from anyone other than was on topic at all. And what I said was taken out of context, I think after talking to him for an hour and a half and me being a graduate of electronics manufacturing what he was saying to me made sense. I put the statement about the Groove tubes in there to let people know what sort of tubes they used before I was asked. My tech is not a moron the person that said that is. What I got was the top of the line Groove tubes made with the original manufacturing equipment from GE and were highly thought of tubes for both stereo and guitar amps when GE was making them. There are only a few companies that actually make their own tubes in the entire world, Groove Tube being one of them. What do you think are the best tubes and why Mr. Smartass? I was hoping to reach some people that were MORE educated than me and not LESS educated people that just flap their jaws with nothing at all to back up any statement made. But since it was mentioned, and keeping in mind that I am not a fender guy because while they make very good amps they dont make any for the style of playing I do. However when a major manufacturer like Fender that uses tubes in their amps and is desiring a supply of consistent high quality tubes for their amps enough to put their money where their mouth is and spend millions of dollars to put their confidence in Groove Tubes I do think that says a hell of a lot more than the 23 cents you have in your pocket and not teams of experts to make this huge decisions. You think you are wiser than Fender? Why because you read a magazine ad or ? Some mature people with serious help only please others please go pretend your etch a sketch is a computer as you likely wont notice any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members greatmutah Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 It's probably just a set of weaker preamp tubes. Order some high gain JJ ECC83s/12ax7s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members greatmutah Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Also, in terms of power tube break up (i have no idea how loud you normally play this thing) EL34s will break up sooner than 6L6s and have a more upper mid characteristic. Might want to see if he can A/B it with those and maybe run the bias a little hotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NaturalBornBoy Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 I have not had one single response from anyone other than was on topic at all. And what I said was taken out of context, I think after talking to him for an hour and a half and me being a graduate of electronics manufacturing what he was saying to me made sense. I put the statement about the Groove tubes in there to let people know what sort of tubes they used before I was asked. My tech is not a moron the person that said that is. What I got was the top of the line Groove tubes made with the original manufacturing equipment from GE and were highly thought of tubes for both stereo and guitar amps when GE was making them. There are only a few companies that actually make their own tubes in the entire world, Groove Tube being one of them. What do you think are the best tubes and why Mr. Smartass?I was hoping to reach some people that were MORE educated than me and not LESS educated people that just flap their jaws with nothing at all to back up any statement made.But since it was mentioned, and keeping in mind that I am not a fender guy because while they make very good amps they dont make any for the style of playing I do. However when a major manufacturer like Fender that uses tubes in their amps and is desiring a supply of consistent high quality tubes for their amps enough to put their money where their mouth is and spend millions of dollars to put their confidence in Groove Tubes I do think that says a hell of a lot more than the 23 cents you have in your pocket and not teams of experts to make this huge decisions. You think you are wiser than Fender? Why because you read a magazine ad or ?Some mature people with serious help only please others please go pretend your etch a sketch is a computer as you likely wont notice any difference. So answer my question Mr. Electronics graduate. How exactly did you use the Hotplate to the point that it almost immediately caused your amp to fry? What exactly did you do differently than me and thousands of other people who have used the Hotplate with absolutely no problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thomasterrible Posted October 25, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 THD a reputable company? Then why when their product damaged my amp and I contacted them to ask where to send the amp and hot plate to have it sorted out by a shop of their choice they simply ignored me. They make comments that their product can not harm your amp or tubes, well I have proof that is bull{censored} and when you combine that with ignoring customers that contact their correct department and they ignore you that is a low down shady company. There are already other attenuator companies that have gone or been forced out of business because there are more than one method of drawing off extra power, inductance being one of them, yes everything was hooked up properly.THD attenuators are only made for one ohmage so you cant switch a hot plates ohmage,thrfirst thing that people ask and yes if it were possible is a reasonable question to pose, but in my case everything was hooked up properly and I kept an eye on the built in VU meter on my amp as volume was altered of course but it was not far from seeing through the grill to find 3 JJ EL34's Glowing orange hot, as it hot as any coal fire I have ever seen with smoke coming off of them. Then after that happens and I contact the companies tech support division and they totally ignore me you think that is a great company? Why dont you try talking to techs that have dealth with thousands of these things and not magazine ads or your buddy or whatever other technical god that granted you such wisdom. I have purchasedtheir product NEW used it PROPERLY and it cost me 600 bucks to fix it after that and the company refused to even reply to my contact when this happened. They make claims that their attenuator cant harm an amp, that is a bold faced lie, as far as what they do when their product damages something it is used on for two minutes and are not even willing to reply much less do the mature and reasonable thing which would be to take the amp and attenuator to a qualified amp shop and get their opinion which they refused to do. They will only take your money and after that they could care less what happens. This is a true story, based upon that information you would call that a reputable company? What qualifies you to determine that the hot plate is a good product that cant harm amps and that is reputable and takes care of their customers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JPIndustrie Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 THD has a reputation of being a player's company, I've heard stories of them going the extra mile for customers. Have you tried every possible means of communication? If so, then consider getting a lawyer to see what your legal options are. However, the only way that you would possibly have a case AND allow us to give you a better answer is (a) whether or not the Hot Plate was used properly and (b) if the Hot Plate was defective (have you tried it on a different amp or brought it to a tech?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JamesPeters Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Are you certain your JJ EL34 weren't biased too hot? Or that they weren't just doomed to failure anyway if you used the amp at that volume setting without the attenuator? Blaming the attenuator and then claiming you have proof are pretty bold statements. Also, I think the recommendation to switch to 6L6 is misguided. 6L6 of any kind. 1) The amp is designed for its sound around EL34 and you liked it the way it was before. 2) Using 6L6 in the amp is actually using those tubes in an impedance mismatch situation since the amp was designed around EL34 for impedance. It may not harm the tubes much under normal conditions but you'll probably wear them faster than usual. And, the sound may not be what you expect as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wiseblood Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 i've used a hotplate with all my amps. no problems it is a great product. aren't ashdown amps known to fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NaturalBornBoy Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 What qualifies you to determine that the hot plate is a good product that cant harm amps and that is reputable and takes care of their customers? What qualifies me? How about real life experience? Does that count? Like I said, I've used the Hotplate for years. The 8 and 16 ohm models. No problems. Not one single technical issue and they damn well never caused my tubes to red plate. I'm not the only one either. Many guys here have used Hotplates at one point or another and you're the first case I've heard of anyone blaming a Hotplate for frying their amp. I've even called, yes, CALLED, not email, called them before to ask a question and no one ignored me. Someone actually answered the phone. Incredible right So I guess THD must suck cos' you know, I bought their products and they actually work as advertised AND they actually answered my overseas call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BustedTube Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 This thread is not going to end well.. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wiseblood Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 "Things like unwanted noise are much lower now and I think he did good work, he said that it was made of good parts and was better than any mesa or splawn, Rivera, Soldono or etc etc." nevermind i see you are a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knucklefux Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 so now i'm a moron? the {censored} ever. bottom line here is that anybody that says that an ashdown is "better than any mesa or splawn, Rivera, Soldono" is a moron. and fender buying out anything isn't going to make it better. that's just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gatelyne Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 lol! Out of the many years of HCAF, this is the first time I have read anything about a THD product failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JamesPeters Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 lol! Out of the many years of HCAF, this is the first time I have read anything about a THD product failing. It's more likely you've just read about some JJ EL34 failing when the amp in question was used at very high volume settings, and the bias may not have been set correctly for the tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wiseblood Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 i would almost guarantee there is nothing wrong with his hotplate. his piece of {censored} amp just couldn't handle being cranked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JPIndustrie Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 OP, did you talk to THD like you write in your posts? No wonder no one responded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 ashdown amps are known for burning down to ashes.you can't find them anywhere for sale anymore because they had so many reliability issues. Having said that, if you're an electronics major, open up the amp and fix it. Or take it back to your great tech, who probably installed some faulty 12AX7s on your preamp. Holy {censored}ing FAIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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