Suzanne

[LeonardScaper]

 

Originally Posted by Marshal

But it's just another silly worthless song.

 

It's far from that.

I immediately got the sense of something very complicated and very familiar....that feeling of odd attraction that all of your common senses tell you will never be fulfilled. The feeling that you are watching someone with whom you share...something....but with whom you may never speak of it intimately.

 

Originally Posted by oldgitplayer

I think I know this woman.

 

Yeah...that feeling.

[Marshal]

Well Boys an girls; here's the first verse and partial chorus

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNxIGlDActk

 

[Oswlek]

I was totally sold for the first verse. The chorus being so melodically similar to the verse felt off somehow.

To my ears, it sounded like the song wanted to the return to the progression at 0:44 (like you did), but then wanted to launch off the 0:49 into somewhere totally new.

[oldgitplayer]

^^^

Either what he says, or using the chorus melody as a pre-chorus before making the change.

But apart from that, I like what I'm hearing, and the music sounds right for this lyric.

[Lee Knight]

Sounds great. Gotta somewhere else in your chorus...

[Lee Knight]

 

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

Sounds great. Gotta somewhere else in your chorus...

 

Sorry for the abrupt input. My laptop was dying. So... when that chorus come up, though you do go to a new place, it still taps the same well. You could sing the same melody at the start, but do it on the IV chord instead of the ii chord again. That, right off the bat, would give your listener the cue that "this is new, this is the chorus, listen up!" And... your melody, though starting from the same note pool, is cool, if you arched it upward to hit a note you haven't yet, up to the tonic maybe, high up. Then you've said, this is the bit you're waiting for. It, right now, feels as though it is nice, but needs to... not jar, as much as call attention to this head. This is the head of it. You gotta signify that in some way, in my opinion.

I love the verse. But it is designed, the way you've written it, to set up an answer musically. And that in turn will bring a certain resonance to what you are saying. A couple of cents to consider.

[Marshal]

The chorus starts on the I chord, actually. But it's a D2 shape X04230 whereas the verses are a VI minor 7 with an open E string on top (Bm7 shape X24230). Admittedly it's more of a color change than a true chord change as played. But as I heard it in my head it was coming "home."

(The problem with that grab on the D is that there's no tonic in the bottom. I have this thing, that I don't like to ever hit a straight chord without something extra going on. Drone E on top makes me put the 3rd (F#) on the 4th string to make the chord which knocks out the tonic near the bottom. I could hit a regular boring old D, I suppose. But that goes against my sensitivities. )

[Marshal]

I haven't solved much on the chorus yet. But last night at 4:00 am I came up with a second verse:

Charts out a path to a mountain pass

And effortlessly heads down the trail

Sunshine in her hair

And laughter in the air

I always think of her that way.

The chorus will likely start with: "There she stands, Suzanne"

It fits well with the hiking theme, and it puts her in a commanding position. In fact the next line would be "Commanding earth and sky" instead of "Controlling".

[Oswlek]

 

Originally Posted by Marshal

The chorus starts on the I chord, actually. But it's a D2 shape X04230 whereas the verses are a VI minor 7 with an open E string on top (Bm7 shape X24230). Admittedly it's more of a color change than a true chord change. But as I heard it in my head it was coming "home."

 

I hear you, but unless it is going to be wrapped in a more dynamic production change, it doesn't provide the lift that the song is calling for there. At least, to my ears.

[Marshal]

PS- "Mountain pass" could just end up being "wilderness." The first line will be tweaked. It just needs to be outdoorsie. The real purpose is to set up "effortlessly." (Which, by the way, the woman in question is the consummate wilderness hiker. She just glides down the path effortlessly whilest the rest of us schlemiels are huffing and puffy up the trail.)

[Marshal]

Ok, OK, OK !

I'll trying it with a boring old "D"

[Marshal]

OOPS ! ! !

Lee is correct (as you would expect). The true key is the "A" position chords ("C#" in true scale.) The pattern is IIm7, I, IM7. The chorus thus wants to be IV, V, I. The "D" position is the IVth. very similar to the IIm7. Same discussion as before. Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

Goes to show that the sound of the instrument inspires me. Later on, if I mind my Ps and Qs, I can figure things out. But it's not the root of my meanderings.

[LeonardScaper]

 

Originally Posted by Marshal

She just glides down the path effortlessly

 

Well.....I just listened to your first shot at it and I think that is just how you are playing this piece.

Don't lose that feel.

[LCK]

 

Originally Posted by LeonardScaper

Well.....I just listened to your first shot at it and I think that is just how you are playing this piece.

Don't lose that feel.

 

+1.

I want you to play on one of my songs...

[rsadasiv]

Sounds good so far.

[Marshal]

Second verse will start with:"Folds up her map", that will mirror the 1st verse's "Rolls out her mat."

Third verse will likely start with:

"Pours out a glass as the sun goes down

And makes a farewell toast to the day"

The difficult area is the end of the chorus. Because that is where I have to reveal something about the relationship. And i don't know where i want to go with that.

[Marshal]

AHA !

It just hit me in a moment of mid-day consciousness. The end of the chorus that echos the verse phrase of:

"I often think of her that way," will be;

"Should not have let her get away."

That consummates the dynamic tension. I've got two lines proceeding that line to say how the protagonist fumbled the ball. That should be fun and easy.

I also have the third verse opening as:

"Pours out a glass as the sun goes down

And gives a farewell nod to the day" - I think a "nod" is more appropriate, instead of a "toast." More casual and personal; subtle tweaks.

Then probably

"Stars in her gaze

And mischief on her face

I often think of her that way"

[Marshal]

"There she stands Suzanne

Commanding earth and sky with only a grin

She turns my way

And I . . . , hesitate

Should not have let her get away."

That about does it. I really like the fact that everything in the song is in the present tense except for the last line of each verse and chorus, (which is in the past tense). To me that means that the singer is doomed to re-live over and over again the situation in his mind. Fresh and vivid memory. And begs the question; what could have been?

We don't have to know why he didn't act on the situation. Fill in the blank with your own scenario; any number of possibilities. All we need to know is he has an ache that will not subside.

I'm reminded of a line from the TV series Mad Men. At one point Donald Draper is selling a concept to Kodak, and he says; "Nostalgia. It comes from the Italian and means the wound that never heals. "

[LeonardScaper]

"Stars in her gaze

And mischief on her face

I often think of her that way"

I like that.

She turns my way

And I . . . , hesitate

Should not have let her get away."

I like that as well. I think you just revealed something about the relationship.

[Marshal]

It's like solving a puzzle, sometimes. Finding that one little puzzle piece; that one line; "Should not have let her get away," popped the whole thing into perspective for me. It's not at all a song about a woman. It's a song about a guy who is infatuated with a woman. She doesn't have to be painted in real terms because she has mythical proportions for him. It's more about his lost opportunity. That's the twist.

I suppose that's what songwriting is for me. A search for the right story line. I seem to never end up in quite the place I thought I was headed when i start out.

I'm still not thrilled with the "Commanding earth and sky with only a grin" line. I mean it works well on some level (except for the miss on the rhyme). But now that I've got the whole picture framed, I can churn some options for a possible better fit.

[oldgitplayer]

^^^

Ha! - the mythical proportions of woman - now there's an endless subject for the writer who cares to travel the distance.

[Monkey Uncle]

 

Originally Posted by Marshal

"There she stands Suzanne

Commanding earth and sky with only a grin

She turns my way

And I . . . , hesitate

Should not have let her get away."

That about does it. I really like the fact that everything in the song is in the present tense except for the last line of each verse and chorus, (which is in the past tense). To me that means that the singer is doomed to re-live over and over again the situation in his mind. Fresh and vivid memory. And begs the question; what could have been?

We don't have to know why he didn't act on the situation. Fill in the blank with your own scenario; any number of possibilities. All we need to know is he has an ache that will not subside.

I'm reminded of a line from the TV series Mad Men. At one point Donald Draper is selling a concept to Kodak, and he says; "Nostalgia. It comes from the Italian and means the wound that never heals. "

 

I think you've nailed it. Though I agree that the "commanding earth and sky" line could use a little massaging.

[LCK]

 

Originally Posted by Marshal

I'm reminded of a line from the TV series Mad Men. At one point Donald Draper is selling a concept to Kodak, and he says; "Nostalgia. It comes from the Italian and means the wound that never heals. "

 

That's funny. Don Draper lies a lot.

Actually, n

[LeonardScaper]

 

Originally Posted by LCK

Actually, n

[Marshal]

OK. I came up with a better 2nd line of the chorus. Looks like the final will be:

There she stands Suzanne

Holding the world in the palm of her hand

She comes my way

But I hesitate

Should not have let her get away.

Then after the second chorus I'll probably reprise with

Moonlight in her hair

Laughter in the air

I often think of her that way

Suzanne.