The Future of Food

[thenakedarab]

So what you're saying is, an American testing organization travels to Mexico and at random, tests products? Right?

 

 

Somethings you just have to learn for yourself.

 

There are numerous organic certification programs, and the farmers pay to have their crops organic certified. If they try to play the certification organizations they pay for it. There are US based one, and international ones based in numerous countries.

 

Go ahead and look some of them up.

 

http://www.scscertified.com/fff/organic_transitional.php

[thenakedarab]

The term organic has a very different meaning now than it did ten years ago. The application process went down from a few months to a few days. Just because it says it's organic doesn't carry the same weight it once did. Newholland, who unfortunately doesn't post around here any more was a cert organic farmer opened my eyes to this fact. That being said, being able to talk to the people who planted and harvested those fruits and veggies is a big plus!

Yes it does, thanks to big corporate farms trying to water it down to fit to the American monoculture farm industry, and move it away from the sustainable farming model.

[Gary Cohn]

Somethings you just have to learn for yourself. There are numerous organic certification programs, and the farmers pay to have their crops organic certified. If they try to play the certification organizations they pay for it. There are US based one, and international ones based in numerous countries. Go ahead and look some of them up. http://www.scscertified.com/fff/organic_transitional.php

 

 

So you would believe that these foreign testers couldn't be persuaded by money?

 

How about a bigger picture, if certification was the same there, and a farm already owned a copious amount of land, what would spark instant relocation to the country of Mexico to continue growing organic produce? Why wouldn't they stay in America?

[thenakedarab]

So you would believe that these foreign testers couldn't be persuaded by money? How about a bigger picture, if certification was the same there, and a farm already owned a copious amount of land, what would spark instant relocation to the country of Mexico to continue growing organic produce? Why wouldn't they stay in America?

 

 

Lower land costs, lower wages, governmental economic incentives such as subsidies and tax breaks, the same things that prompt any corporation to move operations.

[thenakedarab]

So you would believe that these foreign testers couldn't be persuaded by money? How about a bigger picture, if certification was the same there, and a farm already owned a copious amount of land, what would spark instant relocation to the country of Mexico to continue growing organic produce? Why wouldn't they stay in America?

Ok, the same could be said of any industry, and I would counter saying that then even if corrupted then how much more corruption and pass through of unsafe foods would you face from regular produce inspectors.

Take for instance the e-coli scare we had two years ago, and the salmonella scare this year. Notice no organic companies were cited in the warnings. Who was the corrupt party that let those slip by?

I tell you I was quite happy knowing that more care and pride is placed in the product by my organic producers, thus saving me the fear of worrying about every time I ate spinach or eggs.

[Gary Cohn]

Lower land costs, lower wages, governmental economic incentives such as subsidies and tax breaks, the same things that prompt any corporation to move operations.

 

 

Farmers here use illegal immigrants so the wages are a wash.

 

These particular farms already have land, why buy more. Especially

considering that the movement of equipment would be an added cost on top of a wash. That ain't it either.

 

Subsidies are available and plentiful here, so that's a wash as well.

 

What other reasons would an organic farm decide to massively relocate to

Mexico (while keeping their farm open stateside)?

[NixerX]

Farmers here use illegal immigrants so the wages are a wash. These particular farms already have land, why buy more. Especially considering that the movement of equipment would be an added cost on top of a wash. That ain't it either. Subsidies are available and plentiful here, so that's a wash as well. What other reasons would an organic farm decide to massively relocate to Mexico (while keeping their farm open stateside)?

 

 

Do away with Illegals...open the borders.

[TheRymanChu]

Mexico, Brazil same difference. Both make great cigar wrappers.

 

 

Cigar wrapper comes from Cuba, Connecticut, Cameroon, the Dominican Republic, Honduras, and Nicaragua.

 

Mexico and Brazil only make maduro.

 

Oh yeah, we know about cigars in Florida.

[.homewrecker.]

Cigar wrapper comes from Cuba, Connecticut, Cameroon, the Dominican Republic, Honduras, and Nicaragua. Oh yeah, we know about cigars in Florida.

 

 

...and Mexican and Brazil.

[thenakedarab]

Farmers here use illegal immigrants so the wages are a wash. These particular farms already have land, why buy more. Especially considering that the movement of equipment would be an added cost on top of a wash. That ain't it either. Subsidies are available and plentiful here, so that's a wash as well. What other reasons would an organic farm decide to massively relocate to Mexico (while keeping their farm open stateside)?

You do realize that the reason the illegals come here is economic right, namely that the wages here are better than the wages there, even when taking into account the higher cost of living here? Actually, of course you don't because if you did you wouldn't have said something so ignorant.

You have a lot of strawmen there, so obvious in fact that the others aren't even worth burning down.

[TheRymanChu]

Do away with Illegals...open the borders.

 

 

Most top economists say that minimum wage is bad for the economy. I say open the border and let the invisible hand determine the wages for illegals. At least, they will have legal rights and can look for work freely.

[Gary Cohn]

And here I thought that illegals came to America for freedom, free healthcare and an overall better future for their anchor babies.

 

You know, it's amazing, you know so much. I'd figure for a guy that knew so

much about farming, politics, social policy, etc, that you'd be a millionaire.

 

How come you aren't? It seems you know everything!

[thenakedarab]

And here I thought that illegals came to America for freedom, free healthcare and an overall better future for their anchor babies. You know, it's amazing, you know so much. I'd figure for a guy that knew so much about farming, politics, social policy, etc, that you'd be a millionaire. How come you aren't? It seems you know everything!

 

 

You figure that because money is the only measure of a man to people like you. You see that as a virtue, and I see it as everything wrong with the world we live in.

[Gary Cohn]

Most top economists say that minimum wage is bad for the economy. I say open the border and let the invisible hand determine the wages for illegals. At least, they will have legal rights and can look for work freely.

 

 

While I don't agree on the open border part, I do think the minimum wage is ridiculous.

 

If it's too cheap, people won't work there. Let the market set the price. It's like setting a minimum price on the price of lobster, if it's too expensive, no one buys, if it's cheap, people will buy.

[TheRymanChu]

Jobs and family are what drive most immigrants to enter the U.S. illegally. A typical Mexican worker earns one-tenth what a typical American worker makes: http://www.teachablemoment.org/high/immigration.html

 

Most illegal immigrants don't come to the U.S. because they are fleeing a terrible situation in their homeland. It isn't because they can't make a living at home. It isn't even because they are desperately poor, although that is what we hear on the news.

 

They come because they've been brainwashed.

 

If a man earns $10 a day, he is poor. If someone tells him that he can come to the U.S. and make $10 an hour, he'll want to sign up. Now back to being "poor." If he earns $10 a day, and his rent is $10 a week, then 20% of his income goes to pay for housing, assuming a 5-day work week. But in the US, with a $10-an-hour job, he can live in an apartment that costs $600 a month, or $150 a week. He makes $400 a week, so he spends 37.5% of his income on housing. Almost every category across the board is the same. Low wages, low prices. When the prices outstrip the ability of people to purchase, the market dries up. Now think about it: Who is poorer, the person who has to spend 20% of his or her income on housing or the one who spends over 37%?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/356332/why_illegal_immigrants_come.html

 

The illegal alien population of the U.S. is about 20 million - roughly the population of New York State.

The report asserts that there are between 12 and 15 million jobs in the U.S. currently held by illegal aliens, or about 8 percent of the work force.

Moreover, between 4 and 6 million jobs have shifted to the underground economy since 1990. These are not

[Gary Cohn]

You figure that because money is the only measure of a man to people like you. You see that as a virtue, and I see it as everything wrong with the world we live in.

 

 

You'd be wrong on that assumption player.

 

You probably have a bigger tv than I, a more expensive car than I, and probably way more electronics/luxury items than I.

 

I don't put much value of any of those things. But 99% of Americans do, which is what is wrong with this country, I agree with you (write this down, it's the first time).

 

People see these things on television and think that success ='s {censored} like this.

 

I'd rather buy a model airplane.

[thenakedarab]

Jobs and family are what drive most immigrants to enter the U.S. illegally. A typical Mexican worker earns one-tenth what a typical American worker makes: http://www.teachablemoment.org/high/immigration.html Most illegal immigrants don't come to the U.S. because they are fleeing a terrible situation in their homeland. It isn't because they can't make a living at home. It isn't even because they are desperately poor, although that is what we hear on the news. They come because they've been brainwashed. If a man earns $10 a day, he is poor. If someone tells him that he can come to the U.S. and make $10 an hour, he'll want to sign up. Now back to being "poor." If he earns $10 a day, and his rent is $10 a week, then 20% of his income goes to pay for housing, assuming a 5-day work week. But in the US, with a $10-an-hour job, he can live in an apartment that costs $600 a month, or $150 a week. He makes $400 a week, so he spends 37.5% of his income on housing. Almost every category across the board is the same. Low wages, low prices. When the prices outstrip the ability of people to purchase, the market dries up. Now think about it: Who is poorer, the person who has to spend 20% of his or her income on housing or the one who spends over 37%? http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/356332/why_illegal_immigrants_come.html The illegal alien population of the U.S. is about 20 million - roughly the population of New York State. The report asserts that there are between 12 and 15 million jobs in the U.S. currently held by illegal aliens, or about 8 percent of the work force. Moreover, between 4 and 6 million jobs have shifted to the underground economy since 1990. These are not

[TheRymanChu]

I'd rather buy a model airplane.

 

 

I'd like to buy a decent model airplane.

[NixerX]

Most top economists say that minimum wage is bad for the economy. I say open the border and let the invisible hand determine the wages for illegals. At least, they will have legal rights and can look for work freely.

 

 

and pay taxes

[Gary Cohn]

The other part of this that's unseen is that the wages cited here include the hidden work done by their underage children, and this is also what allows farmers to avoid conforming to minimum wage laws, to which the farmers turn a blind eye because it lowers their costs. Not only should most farmers that do so face fines for knowingly hiring illegals, they should also face fines and jail-time for breaking child labor laws.

 

 

Ah, but then you run into every other problem concerning American manufacturing.

 

You do that, our products will become too expensive for the American consumer, ultimately shutting down American farms. Then, our agriculture will also be in the hands of another country.

 

I don't know about you, but it's scary to know that if we piss off the wrong country(ies), we have all of our raw material/textiles and manufacturing halted and choked.

 

You want our foods in that death lock too?

[TheRymanChu]

There are certain foods like wheat and beef that the U.S. will probably never need to import.

 

As for textiles, it would be interesting to see how the military would clothe itself in a war against China.

[thenakedarab]

Ah, but then you run into every other problem concerning American manufacturing. You do that, our products will become too expensive for the American consumer, ultimately shutting down American farms. Then, our agriculture will also be in the hands of another country. I don't know about you, but it's scary to know that if we piss off the wrong country(ies), we have all of our raw material/textiles and manufacturing halted and choked. You want our foods in that death lock too?

 

 

It's funny how you act all conservative and {censored}, but wouldn't recommend that people should then be more thoughtful in their purchasing, less wasteful, and thus lower demand by eliminating waste. Oh god, what am I thinking? This is America, everything's about convenience and impulsiveness now.

[.homewrecker.]

There are certain foods like wheat and beef that the U.S. will probably never need to import. As for textiles, it would be interesting to see how the military would clothe itself in a war against China.

The other textile places not located in China

There's quite a few in the DR, Honduras and, oh my, even on US soil. While Chinas textiles are cheap they're really low quality and shipping is much more expensive to get it from China as opposed to the places mentioned above. And before you call me an idiot again, I'll just let you know that I source textiles for a uniform company.

[.homewrecker.]

It's funny how you act all conservative and {censored}, but wouldn't recommend that people should then be more thoughtful in their purchasing, less wasteful, and thus lower demand by eliminating waste. Oh god, what am I thinking? This is America, everything's about convenience and impulsiveness now.

 

 

What does being conservative have to do with not being wasteful?

[thenakedarab]

What does being conservative have to do with not being wasteful?

:facepalm:

Wow, just wow.

I'm hoping you forgot the .