Loss of clarity in tone with lower tunings, can this be fixed with EQing?

[spawnofthesith]

The lowest I'll usually ever go is C standard and drop C, and my Mark V handles those tunings fine. However, I was messing with some stuff and trying to learn some songs in A# and B today, and I was noticing that at those super low tunings the tone went to {censored}. Really muddy and flubby sounding, and not much clarity. My question is, is this an amp thing, or an EQing thing? I assumed it was probably just the amp, and didn't want to risk messing around with the EQ because the Mark is a pretty temperamental amp when it comes to that, and I have it dialed to a tone I really like. If it is an EQ thing, what would one need to change in order to get some clarity back?

[gt_jumper]

nah anything gets messier the lower you go, try slightly less bass, new strings (obviously you have done this, hence the new tuning). I like to slightly boost around 1000 - 2000hz depending on the amp when going to a lower tuning. My pups for standard is the SD invader, a muddyish pup, lower tunings are the SD distortion. with this setup i dont have to touch my settings and its a good all round mix from tuning to tuning.

[eudaimonia02912]

Buy a TS7 for cheap, put the tone on the pedal at 3 o'clock, turn the gain off, and use as much boost as you'd like (or keep it at unity). This will cut some of the bass and add clarity for low notes without having to change the EQ on your amp.

[gt_jumper]

Buy a TS7 for cheap, put the tone on the pedal at 3 o'clock, turn the gain off, and use as much boost as you'd like (or keep it at unity). This will cut some of the bass and add clarity for low notes without having to change the EQ on your amp.

:thu:this, how could i have forgotten.

[troyguitar]

I run the bass knob on my IIC+ at zero for my 7+ string guitars, then add some bass back in with the graphic EQ. Works great.

[Johnny'sGotTheBlues]

I don't play those lower tunings but to me it'd be a speaker thing more than anything.

 

You're starting to hit frequencies that most guitar speakers weren't designed to handle.

 

Kind of like playing bass thru a guitar amp.

 

Check out the curves on the spec sheets for what ever you're using.

 

Expensive solution to your problem though - buying all new speakers.

[DVaz]

 

The lowest I'll usually ever go is C standard and drop C, and my Mark V handles those tunings fine. However, I was messing with some stuff and trying to learn some songs in A# and B today, and I was noticing that at those super low tunings the tone went to {censored}. Really muddy and flubby sounding, and not much clarity. My question is, is this an amp thing, or an EQing thing? I assumed it was probably just the amp, and didn't want to risk messing around with the EQ because the Mark is a pretty temperamental amp when it comes to that, and I have it dialed to a tone I really like. If it is an EQ thing, what would one need to change in order to get some clarity back?

 

 

EQing can help, but you can only EQ whats there to begin with.

 

If your guitar/string gauge/pickup/all three arent preserving the transients of each note (for definition) and keeping the low end under control (for not mudding) you arent going to put them back in later.

 

If theres enough of them there, though, then an eq can help bring it out.

[theAntihero]

Try thicker strings, or even better a Baritone.

[Valtiel]

Like whats been mentioned, pulling out low end is the key to keeping low tunings clear, especially as you start to use larger strings. Don't be afraid to start zeroing things out.

[exafro]

Pull out some bass before the gain stages, lower the gain if you have to. You can't have the same EQ in a dropped tuning that you use for standard. It just doesn't work like that.

 

I don't play those lower tunings but to me it'd be a speaker thing more than anything. You're starting to hit frequencies that most guitar speakers weren't designed to handle. Kind of like playing bass thru a guitar amp. Check out the curves on the spec sheets for what ever you're using. Expensive solution to your problem though - buying all new speakers.

 

It's really not that at all in my experience. If your guitar speaker can handle something in standard, it should be able to hold up under the low tunings too.

[diocide]

Try using a clean boost like was mentioned above. I just started messing around with tuning to B standard and my marshall sounds pretty good with the boost out front. That, and try backing off the gain a bit. Gain and preamp volume will both exaggerate the bass tones IMO

[17 Tubes]

I just don't get why people tune down top C and then wonder how come they loose tone or tightness.

 

Tune back up to D and watch....listen to....your tone, clarity, and tightness magically come back. You can still be heavy and brootal there. Let the bass do it's job and you do yours.

[exafro]

 

I just don't get why people tune down top C and then wonder how come they loose tone or tightness. Tune back up to D and watch....listen to....your tone, clarity, and tightness magically come back. You can still be heavy and brootal there. Let the bass do it's job and you do yours.

 

The bass can still do it's job when you have a low tuned guitar. This stuff isn't rocket science.

[neatobassman]

 

I just don't get why people tune down top C and then wonder how come they loose tone or tightness. Tune back up to D and watch....listen to....your tone, clarity, and tightness magically come back. You can still be heavy and brootal there. Let the bass do it's job and you do yours.

 

 

But the lower you tune, the lower the bass tunes, and he can do his job in a different place...LOWER! I support the sub-contra bassist

[RaceU4her]

get an amp that can handle extreme metal

[Reignman]

Get a longer scale guitar is what I heard works.

[spawnofthesith]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I tried the pedal thing and it worked out pretty nicely

 

 

 

get an amp that can handle extreme metal

 

[17 Tubes]

 

The bass can still do it's job when you have a low tuned guitar. This stuff isn't rocket science.

 

 

 

 

But yet...when the "mids" argument comes up...every says "the guitar is a mids instrument". Low C is a bass note no matter what instrument you play (piano).

 

Actually...there IS some physics involved...and obviously many people do not comprehend or we wouldn't have this thread. Standard guitar strings, guitars, amps and cabs are designed for specific use...the lower you tune the further you fall outside those specifications.

 

The looser the strings are the floppier they are...less clarity, less tight and less "tone". Maybe not rocket science but it IS physical science.

 

Not saying it won't work. I don't think it's ideal and I see a lot if bands tune way way down because they think it automatically makes you bad ass and brootal...when it's just a floppy mess of bull{censored}. Many bands prove you can be heavy without tuning so far down. (DO I need to list? I hope not)

 

 

If you want to play a different instrument (for example, a "uke" is different from a standard "flatop acoustic") and play a suitable rig.....okay fine. The baritone/8 strings might be one way to go, but not sure the Mark rig is ideal. Maybe the Rivera sub?

 

gtjumper gave great advice. He was saying the truth...it WILL be messier. You can limit that, dial it out, but you can;t beat physics altogether.

 

 

When I said let the bass do it job...I meant let the bass roll without stomping on it. A symphony is made up of many different parts, each doing their own job to create a wall of sound. Same thing in a rock band.

[spawnofthesith]

FWIW, I have always had my channel 3 dialed in for C, and I've never had any clarity problems there

[17 Tubes]

FWIW, I have always had my channel 3 dialed in for C, and I've never had any clarity problems there

 

 

Like I said...not saying it won't work, ever. And yes....I definitely have a bias involved here. There's some great advice....so plenty of leads to follow to get as good of sound as possible.

 

 

Do you have any clips?

[spawnofthesith]

Like I said...not saying it won't work, ever. And yes....I definitely have a bias involved here. There's some great advice....so plenty of leads to follow to get as good of sound as possible. Do you have any clips?

 

Yeah, but not very good ones I am sure they all will sound muddy to some degree, but thats more the recordings than anything else... my clips in standard tend to sound a bit muddy as well.

 

Here's a few, pardon my mediocre playing:

 

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/100-markvtest2.mp3

 

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/48-fullmix.mp3 (this one is all VST plugins)

 

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/78-kzdrumjam.mp3

 

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/48-sludge.mp3

[Johnny'sGotTheBlues]

It's really not that at all in my experience. If your guitar speaker can handle something in standard, it should be able to hold up under the low tunings too.

 

Well, like I said, downtuning to me is Eb to do Hendrix.

[17 Tubes]

Yeah, but not very good ones I am sure they all will sound muddy to some degree, but thats more the recordings than anything else... my clips in standard tend to sound a bit muddy as well. Here's a few, pardon my mediocre playing: http://www.netmusicians.org/files/100-markvtest2.mp3 http://www.netmusicians.org/files/48-fullmix.mp3 (this one is all VST plugins) http://www.netmusicians.org/files/78-kzdrumjam.mp3 http://www.netmusicians.org/files/48-sludge.mp3

 

 

 

Alright...fair enough. I have a LOT to say about it...but I guess the main thing being that maybe I don't "get" the genre.

 

 

As far as I am concerned...that's good playing for what your doing and the guitar sound isn't half bad at all.

 

{Psst...I can't tell where the bass guitar is in there.....the guitar is all over it.... )

[spawnofthesith]

Different strokes I s'pose, and thanks

 

Only the second one had any bass in it, and that "bass" was clean guitar detuned an octave in Reaper

[DVaz]

 

Like I said...not saying it won't work, ever. And yes....I definitely have a bias involved here. There's some great advice....so plenty of leads to follow to get as good of sound as possible. Do you have any clips?

 

 

Youre arguments arent at all unreasonable. However, it can all be worked around.

 

Here are a couple of clips.

 

Since I re-did the treatment in my room my powerball and pittbull are alomst TOO tight, in drop B, and any tightness in these can and will be outdone massively in all future recordings. But if you dont think these are tight, then you have far higher standard than I, and I'm a tightness freak (I think they can be better in all sorts of ways, including tighter, but they are 'tight')

 

One of my songs from ages ago. Please excuse the crappily mixed drums, I really need to re-do it. Drop A#, powerball.

 

http://soundcloud.com/mdv/memento-mori

 

Something I recorded for a local band. Drop B, powerball/pittbull blend

 

http://soundcloud.com/mdv/compass-by-horizons

 

One riff from a song I'm redoing at the moment, chopped out because its one of the few final parts and people wanted aftermath clips through real amps when it first came out (I've been using BK aftermaths for about a year as my main pickups). No bass on this one.

 

http://soundcloud.com/mdv/aftermath-holy-tyranny-happy-riff-exerpt

 

The work-arounds are in guitar woods, amp settings, string gauge (really heavy, contrary to popular belief, does automatically = really tight. the strings are tighter, but there are fewer high modes. Go for the middle ground. In drop B I use 12-56) and most importantly the playing. Play tight = sounds tight.