Scale Length and Sustain

[Failure Theory]

I am going to build a guitar and am in the process of debating what scale length to go with. Longer scale lengths result in higher string tension, and shorter less tension.

 

The question at hand is whether scale length has a noticable effect on sustain. I understand the tonal differences between scale length/string tension.

 

Note:

Generally different string gauges are used with different scale lengths to get the desired feel. i.e. longer scale lighter gauge strings, in order to make up for the higher tension and vica versa. In the end perhaps the tension ends up nearly the same...

[nwtsnma]

longer scale give more SUSTIAN

[tedmich]

longer scale length = higher string tension and longer neck which can absorb vibrations so...less sustain! (maybe)

 

neat string tension calc here:

http://www.pacificsites.net/~dog/StringTensionApplet.html

 

need Java, and use NW for the electric strings...

 

helped me pick the strings for my 8 string Kahler/EMG808 monster in process, 30" scale, 36 frets (really 30 frets and 6 fret lines)

[Failure Theory]

My first guess is that longer scale lengths result in more sustain. The strings have more energy and perhaps a higher velocity, giving more sustain. The extra neck length would dampen some of that energy though!

 

That calculator is pretty sweet!

[justinulpherdt]

Pick the scale length you are comfortable with. I have short fingers, but prefer long scale, 'cause I like the attack. But after the initial plunk, a good Tele will ring as long as a Paul. Gatton and Buchanan never ran out of sustain, which amazed the guys who thought you needed a Lester. After the attack, lots of interacting factors determine the sustain. Heavier strings are more subject to damping by magnetic pups, but have more inertia because of mass. And different guitars fade out the harmonics at different rates, which makes a jazz box sound different from a solidbody.

 

Let your ears and your left hand decide.

[WRGKMC]

Scale length has no great measurable effect on sustain. the Lbs per inch on a string are the same when tuned to pitch. Sustain is strictly an aspect of the neck/body woods and bridge/nut material/design. Something like a wrap around bridge on a hard wood body Brass nut and steel frets is going to sustain longer then say an el cheapo metal tune o matic/trapeeze setup with a soft wood body.

[weg]

 

the Lbs per inch on a string are the same when tuned to pitch.

 

 

Not true. The pitch of the string is directly related to its length, size, and tension.

 

What effect this has on sustain is open for debate though.

[WRGKMC]

Youre right, The lbs does change with scale length with say a gibson 24.5 and a fender 25.5 but only by about 5lbs on the heavy string. Its pressure exerted end to end on a string. The actual downward pressure on say a tune o matic bridge would be only a fraction of that amount.

[Marc G]

I would think the woods used and the type of neck joint would be more of a factor with sustain than scale length...... my SG has more sustain than my Tele... .not a butt load more but it does..... oddly I would of thought the bigger of the 2 guitars, ie the tele, would have more sustain..... this isn't the case....

[Failure Theory]

It's true the downward componant of force on the nut/bridge does not change much. It should also be noted that there is not much force there to begin with, so what is the percent change??? There is also a larger compressive force on the neck and joints. The larger force is also seen in the truss rod. The compression of these parts would, i assume, change how the vibrations pass through them. Also the strings having a higher tension may have an effect. Think about making a rope oscillate. as you pull it tighter will it vibrate longer or less? The tighter would have a smaller amplitude, but higher velocity (assuming the same length). Then there is the mass of the string... there are a lot of factors. I understand that the wood, bridge, nut, and joints play a very critical role. I am trying to get some wood to make the guitar out of 1 solid piece to eliminate the neck joint*. I also plan on using 2 really long carbon fiber neck reinforcements.

 

* Note: I may glue two (~0.75") pieces together one on top of the other. Like a mahogany back and maple top (I want a PRS sounding guitar)

[3red]

just play a regular guitar and forget about this dork bs

[tedmich]

 

just play a regular guitar and forget about this dork bs

 

 

Grouchy Old Threadkiller (GOTK) Nominee

[Failure Theory]

 

just play a regular guitar and forget about this dork bs

 

 

Well I am glad "Les Paul" and other revolutionary luthiers didn't have his attitude!

[tedmich]

 

It's true the downward componant of force on the nut/bridge does not change much. It should also be noted that there is not much force there to begin with, so what is the percent change??? There is also a larger compressive force on the neck and joints. The larger force is also seen in the truss rod. The compression of these parts would, i assume, change how the vibrations pass through them. Also the strings having a higher tension may have an effect. Think about making a rope oscillate. as you pull it tighter will it vibrate longer or less? The tighter would have a smaller amplitude, but higher velocity (assuming the same length). Then there is the mass of the string... there are a lot of factors. I understand that the wood, bridge, nut, and joints play a very critical role. I am trying to get some wood to make the guitar out of 1 solid piece to eliminate the neck joint*. I also plan on using 2 really long carbon fiber neck reinforcements. * Note: I may glue two (~0.75") pieces together one on top of the other. Like a mahogany back and maple top (I want a PRS sounding guitar)

 

 

A more common approach is to use slab cut 3/4" stock and laminate together to get the ~2-3 " width needed for a "neck through"; this is what BC rich used to do. The peg head and body are "ears also glued on. The slab cut wood is quartersawn on its side; very strong. The CF can go down the middle, shown or not. Vigier (fretless maker Bumblefoot uses) has no truss rod, just CF rib.

 

3/4" stick is cheaper than thick wood, you can even groove the center piece to have the truss rod ready to install, or bevel the backs to have the neck profile already roughed out, which save gobs of time. Use Wenge and quilt maple and it looks cool.

 

I'd buy a ready made fret board; I got a 36 slot (30" scale ) jet black Madagascar ebony 3.25 wide board for ~$55 (a steal) from LMII.com

[Monkeyman Joe]

just play a regular guitar and forget about this dork bs

 

[Deeprig9]

Harder wood with a fixed type tremelo and pickup magnets not so close to the strings will give you sustain, along with a good volume that helps the strings keep ringing via frequency, without feedback.

 

I have no idea what I'm talking about, just stuff I've read over the years.

[MahaloVision]

There are guys over in the GAL that have done the research on the effect of scale length on tension, and I'm certainly not one of those guys. However, from what they've written it appears that a longer scale length will result in more sustain, all other things being equal (and that's another story altogether). I'm willing to buy that position.

 

However, I'm not sure it really means anything when it comes to guitar design. For Pianos and Harps maybe. Perhaps it has a measurable effect, I dunno. With the guitar, there are other ways to get sustain, and on electric guitars I've yet to run into a decent guitar that didn't have enough sustain as is. Santana never seemed to have a problem getting sustain with a LP, Yamaha SG2000, or PRS. My ES-137 does a great job at feedback sustain, and I've heard plenty of long notes out of Tele's and Strats.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that when it comes to guitar design and construction, you have more important things to consider than sustain. Build it well with good joinery and you should have more than enough sustain to float your boat.

[Procreatur]

 

* Note: I may glue two (~0.75") pieces together one on top of the other. Like a mahogany back and maple top (I want a PRS sounding guitar)

 

 

i'd go bigger than that, around that thick for the maple top, and probably around an inch to an inch and a quarter for the back. once it's carved, there will be vast amounts of material gone, and it will look puny. i made that mistake, not fun to compensate for on a neckthrough. i bought a carvin neck. it can be ordered with any of there normal neck options as well, and saves an ass load of work. it also has the PRS/carvin scale length, which has a nice balance of attack and sustain.