Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 20, 2012 Members Share Posted February 20, 2012 So... I have a blonde v2. I like it, but it's WAY too quiet *as in db output*. The signal light on the PA doesn't even come on, it's like 1/4 the output of my rack preamp. I bought it new and I'm using it with an ac adapter, not the 9v batt. Tech21 recommends it to be used this way, and advertises it can be used as a stand-alone preamp, not just as an od pedal. I'm using it like this at home-- Guitar>Blonde>Carvin 600(125w@8ohm)>Cab(monitor). It's enough to practice/jam with, but not nearly enough with a drummer. The rack preamp in the same setup is very loud. Same cords, same cab, etc. The output of the blonde pedal just isn't strong enough I guess. Tech21nyc, help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ke2 Posted February 20, 2012 Members Share Posted February 20, 2012 Are the character series considered a preamp (in the "right" sense of the word), or a stompbox? If it has instrument output, it's probably just behaving the way it should. I have the same issue with a tri-OD. It's very low output. I find I have to more or less crank the levels on it to be the same as the uncolored signal. And that is to the instrument input of a regular guitar amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tech21man Posted February 20, 2012 Members Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well they can go DI can't they? And there are several videos with them driving power amps so... There may be something wrong with the blonde but if you are not sure or can't find another one, put another "preamp", clean to boost the signal to do your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ke2 Posted February 20, 2012 Members Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well they can go DI can't they? And there are several videos with them driving power amps so... There may be something wrong with the blonde but if you are not sure or can't find another one, put another "preamp", clean to boost the signal to do your job. Yep, the question is if there's a DI box we don't see.. It looks like they are designed to have the output to drive an amp.... http://www.tech21nyc.com/reviews/images/CS_GP508.pdf Designed to be run in front of an amp, in an amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 20, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2012 Bump. Anybody else having this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 21, 2012 There may be something wrong with the blonde but if you are not sure or can't find another one, put another "preamp", clean to boost the signal to do your job. The blonde is supposed to be a preamp. I'm not going to boost a preamp with another preamp... seems redundant. Going to call tech21 in the morning. {censored}... Why are maps so hardddd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tech21man Posted February 21, 2012 Members Share Posted February 21, 2012 I did a little experiment, putting a zoom processor (that I know gives a "correct" line out) after the send of my trademark 10 (which is also suppose to go DI. it does but does it better with the XLR out it has). It was succesfull in the meaning that it could give an uncoloured output increase with its volume etc, I also put its compressor module after the tech21 and the sound got rid of most fizzy qualities and got 10 times stronger and punchier! Also such small processors are either way useful for delay etc. Give it a try if you can!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tech21NYC Posted February 21, 2012 Members Share Posted February 21, 2012 The Character Series provide enough output to drive most power amps and mixers. I use my Leeds and British with a Mackie 1402 mixer and can easily get more than enough output. Assuming that your pedal is functioning correctly I have a number of questions. What is your exact signal chain and settings for the Blonde? In general if you have the Character control turned counterclockwise and have the drive set very low you will need to run the level control at a much higher level. This is normal. What type of guitar and are you running the volume on the guitar full up? Are you running any pedals before the Blonde and after it? You mentioned you are running into a mixer. Which mixer and are you going into a line in channel or microphone channel? Does the mixer have an input pad or trim? Have you set up the input gain properly on the mixer? Sorry for all the questions but there are many variables to consider when responding to your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 21, 2012 I did a little experiment, putting a zoom processor (that I know gives a "correct" line out) after the send of my trademark 10 (which is also suppose to go DI. it does but does it better with the XLR out it has). It was succesfull in the meaning that it could give an uncoloured output increase with its volume etc, I also put its compressor module after the tech21 and the sound got rid of most fizzy qualities and got 10 times stronger and punchier! Also such small processors are either way useful for delay etc. Give it a try if you can!!! Thanks for trying the experiment I don't have any multi-fx though. I like the 'analog' sound of the blonde, but need a little more output from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 21, 2012 The Character Series provide enough output to drive most power amps and mixers. I use my Leeds and British with a Mackie 1402 mixer and can easily get more than enough output.Assuming that your pedal is functioning correctly I have a number of questions.What is your exact signal chain and settings for the Blonde? In general if you have the Character control turned counterclockwise and have the drive set very low you will need to run the level control at a much higher level. This is normal. What type of guitar and are you running the volume on the guitar full up? Are you running any pedals before the Blonde and after it? You mentioned you are running into a mixer. Which mixer and are you going into a line in channel or microphone channel? Does the mixer have an input pad or trim? Have you set up the input gain properly on the mixer?Sorry for all the questions but there are many variables to consider when responding to your question. Hey, I was hoping you would chime in... Chain is: Guitar>Jap. DS-1>TU-3>Blonde>Carvin DCM600>Avatar 2x12 Settings on the blonde: Level = max, Low = Off to 9 o'clock, Mid = 10 to 11 o'clock, High = 2 o'clock, Character = 10 to 12 o'clock, Drive = 12 to 2 o'clock. Speaker sim off, it's a v2. No mixer, going straight to the PA. Tried different cords, plugging guitar straight into the blonde, 2 different guitars, etc. I'm running the blonde from a onespot 9v adapter, also tried a boss/ibanez 9v adapter, ditched the 9v batt thinking it may have been running low. I have the blonde connected to the pa with a 3' patch cord, so long cords aren't the problem, even tried a 6" patch cord. The 'signal' light on the power amp never comes on, like it's not getting enough juice from the blonde. A rack preamp (mesa studio) in the same setup/same cords is much louder. I have to turn it down, and the signal light on the power amp still comes on, so it's not the pa/cab/cords. The blonde is just quiet. I love the way it sounds, but it's just doesn't have very much output. Could I measure the output of the blonde with a DMM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members therabbit Posted February 21, 2012 Members Share Posted February 21, 2012 No idea and this reply will probably be irrelevant. I had one of the original Sansamp PSA-1 rackmount preamps. The cleans were much lower in volume than the distorted sounds. I don't know if they compensated for this in the standalone pedals or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tech21man Posted February 22, 2012 Members Share Posted February 22, 2012 Hey, I was hoping you would chime in... Chain is: Guitar>Jap. DS-1>TU-3>Blonde>Carvin DCM600>Avatar 2x12Settings on the blonde: Level = max, Low = Off to 9 o'clock, Mid = 10 to 11 o'clock, High = 2 o'clock, Character = 10 to 12 o'clock, Drive = 12 to 2 o'clock. Speaker sim off, it's a v2.No mixer, going straight to the PA. Tried different cords, plugging guitar straight into the blonde, 2 different guitars, etc. I'm running the blonde from a onespot 9v adapter, also tried a boss/ibanez 9v adapter, ditched the 9v batt thinking it may have been running low. I have the blonde connected to the pa with a 3' patch cord, so long cords aren't the problem, even tried a 6" patch cord. The 'signal' light on the power amp never comes on, like it's not getting enough juice from the blonde.A rack preamp (mesa studio) in the same setup/same cords is much louder. I have to turn it down, and the signal light on the power amp still comes on, so it's not the pa/cab/cords. The blonde is just quiet. I love the way it sounds, but it's just doesn't have very much output.Could I measure the output of the blonde with a DMM? You are going straight to the desk without a speaker sim on? Anyway, having the studio preamp alongside my trademark 10 yielded two interesting results. First if the output of the trademark 10 and studio had to be compared, it would be like, trademark 10 3/10 and studio preamp more like 100/10...That loud. Honestly the livilier most pumping preamp I've ever tried like the sound can't wait to get off the speaker! The pod XT I also had then was also louder than the trademark 10 even in the XLR out. I compared them with a power engine with the volume on the power engine stable. Second is, that the trademark 10 was reeeeeeally similar to the DI of the studio preamp!!! Even more "refined" sounding, less responsive (a tiny bit) but sooooo similar ha ha. On the US/hi gain/UK mode!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caulk Rocket Posted February 22, 2012 Members Share Posted February 22, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tech21NYC Posted February 22, 2012 Members Share Posted February 22, 2012 Hey, I was hoping you would chime in... Chain is: Guitar>Jap. DS-1>TU-3>Blonde>Carvin DCM600>Avatar 2x12Settings on the blonde: Level = max, Low = Off to 9 o'clock, Mid = 10 to 11 o'clock, High = 2 o'clock, Character = 10 to 12 o'clock, Drive = 12 to 2 o'clock. Speaker sim off, it's a v2.No mixer, going straight to the PA. Tried different cords, plugging guitar straight into the blonde, 2 different guitars, etc. I'm running the blonde from a onespot 9v adapter, also tried a boss/ibanez 9v adapter, ditched the 9v batt thinking it may have been running low. I have the blonde connected to the pa with a 3' patch cord, so long cords aren't the problem, even tried a 6" patch cord. The 'signal' light on the power amp never comes on, like it's not getting enough juice from the blonde.A rack preamp (mesa studio) in the same setup/same cords is much louder. I have to turn it down, and the signal light on the power amp still comes on, so it's not the pa/cab/cords. The blonde is just quiet. I love the way it sounds, but it's just doesn't have very much output.Could I measure the output of the blonde with a DMM? We measured the output of the pedal with your settings. With a -10dB signal which is average for a guitar we got +7dB output. That's more than enough to get full output out of that power amp. Even using a -20dB signal at the input we were still able to get 0dB out of the pedal. That should still be enough to make the amp work properly. The Mesa rack mount will have more output because it's running at a higher voltage than a 9 volt pedal. Still you shouldn't need to max out either device. I'm not sure what you mean by "PA." It seems you are using a power amp coupled with a guitar speaker cab (Avatar 212.)??? If you are going to a guitar speaker cab or direct to the board we advise that you leave the speaker sim on. The button to defeat the speaker sim is intended for use into a conventional guitar amp's preamp. Unless your guitar has really weak output it should work. My guess is that possibly you have the Channel Level controls on the Carvin set too low. To get the maximum headroom out of your source you should turn the Channel Level controls up full. From the Carvin Manual for your amplifier: 3. CHANNEL LEVEL CONTROLA precision 41 step input LEVEL attenuate is used to adjust the volume levels. To deliver the amps maximum power without reducing the headroom of the signal source, the level controls should be turned full on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 We measured the output of the pedal with your settings. With a -10dB signal which is average for a guitar we got +7dB output. That's more than enough to get full output out of that power amp. Even using a -20dB signal at the input we were still able to get 0dB out of the pedal. That should still be enough to make the amp work properly. The Mesa rack mount will have more output because it's running at a higher voltage than a 9 volt pedal. Still you shouldn't need to max out either device. I'm not sure what you mean by "PA." It seems you are using a power amp coupled with a guitar speaker cab (Avatar 212.)??? If you are going to a guitar speaker cab or direct to the board we advise that you leave the speaker sim on. The button to defeat the speaker sim is intended for use into a conventional guitar amp's preamp.Unless your guitar has really weak output it should work. My guess is that possibly you have the Channel Level controls on the Carvin set too low. To get the maximum headroom out of your source you should turn the Channel Level controls up full.From the Carvin Manual for your amplifier: Thanks for the input nyc. Yeah, Im using the blonde as a preamp and the DCM as a solid state 'power amp' into a v30 cab. I just ran both the DCM and Blonde cranked, and it's definitely not putting out the wattage it should, even in 'solid state' watts. I was able to play in a 10'x12' room with both all the way up, and the signal light on the pa only flickers if I strum hard or kick on dirt pedals. It's definitely not enough to overcome a loud drummer. Both guitars have hums, one is a Super Distortion, so low output from the guitars isn't a problem. I have other amps that I would have noticed it on already. I normally don't turn the power amp past half-way, because I've heard solid state amps start 'hard clipping' and can blow speakers this way? I got a lot of white noise with the carvin at full volume. In my situation with v30s & high gain the blonde sounds better with the sim off, but I've tried it both ways. I'm going to ohm out the cab tonight with a dmm and make sure the pa is seeing 8 ohms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 The power amp attenuater knob will not cause the power amp to clip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CME Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Explain your set up a bit more if you can. How exactly are you running to the amp and the pa? I've been wanting to get a character pedal to replace my pod xtl. I have no problems getting plenty of level with it and I'm sure the character pedals are the same. And as far as blowing your speakers with square wave. You are at a higher risk of that with the amps input turned down. This can cause you to crank up the device feeding the amp to the point it's outputs clip and send a square wave to the amp. If you turn the amp input all the way up you shouldn't get clipping before the amp, and by the time you do clip the output of the amp you should be nearing (and maybe past) the point of blowing your speakers with too much signal. In other words volume shouldn't be an issue, and if you match your amp to your speakers you should have a hard time blowing anything at reasonable volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 The power amp attenuater knob will not cause the power amp to clip. Cool, good to know. Just so there's no confusion, I'm not watching the 'clipping' light btw, there's a seperate 'signal' light that rarely comes on with the blonde pedal, as in the amp is barely passing a signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Chain is: Guitar>Jap. DS-1>TU-3>Blonde>Carvin DCM600>Avatar 2x12 That's it... my bedroom setup, no mics/mixers, etc. Both pedals & the blonde are on a/c power, no bad 9vs batts., and I've tried short/different cables. The carvin is 125w @ 8ohm (how I'm using it), and with the blonde it's seriously not much louder than my little Vox Pathfinder 15w. More bass response because it's a 2x12 instead of 1x8. A mesa pre in the same setup was deafening. I realize, that's apples-oranges, but the blonde+125w ss power should be a night & day difference compared to a 15w solid state guitar amp, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JamesPeters Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 While it's true a pedal like this can be technically considered a "preamp", it doesn't necessarily mean its output level will be optimal for a poweramp that's meant for use with typical preamps. Several people on this thread have mentioned it basically has an instrument-level output, since it was designed for use in front of guitar amps (if not using the speaker sim), and it seems that when using the speaker sim the output is no louder (I'm guessing there's no extra gain stage on that particular output to amplify the pedal's output to a hotter level). All the info I see about these pedals suggests they're not what a person normally considers a "preamp" in terms of signal level, including the bit of marketing info that says they're good for using in guitar amp effect loops (since it seems most guitar amp loops can accommodate pedals nowadays). If the speaker sim output is louder, feel free to correct me on this presumption. If you want to use the pedal with a "PA" (and this time I mean "public address" system, not "power amp") you'll probably have to plug it into a mic input of the PA/mixer, so that you can use a mic preamp to step up the level to the point where it's appropriate for the poweramp. If you're using a poweramp without a mixer, then you'll probably need a separate mic preamp to step up the level. Fortunately that won't set you back much, since there are some decent mic preamps which are inexpensive. Something like these should be fine for the job: http://www.zzounds.com/item--ART127 http://www.zzounds.com/item--RLLMP13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 "Being a genuine SansAmp, each Character Series pedal is way more than an effect pedal. Each can be used as a stand-alone preamp to drive a power amp, a studio mixer, or a PA system" http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/tech-21-sansamp-character-series-blonde-v2-distortion-guitar-effects-pedal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Anomaly Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 not sure how much this will help, but i used to run a blonde direct into our board, like many other people do, and they work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JamesPeters Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 not sure how much this will help, but i used to run a blonde direct into our board, like many other people do, and they work fine. Into a mic preamp 1/4" input on that particular channel you used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Into a mic preamp 1/4" input on that particular channel you used? Good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 I measured the cab and it is 8 ohms (7.9) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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