Members soilent Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 I posted a "critique my mix" thread the other day for this song http://soundcloud.com/archimedesband/arch-song-4-mix (no lead vocals yet) Anyway, I'd like to master it, but I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to that. Would anyone here like to master it for me so I can get an idea of what it might sound like? I kind of want to know if my recordings are even worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Markdude Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 You shouldn't master anything until you've got the mixes of an entire record finished. I really think 80% of the people who use the word "mastering" have no idea what it really means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soilent Posted June 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 You shouldn't master anything until you've got the mixes of an entire record finished. I really think 80% of the people who use the word "mastering" have no idea what it really means. I don't plan on mastering it as is. We just tracked vocals and I haven't been able to mix them yet. This is just a personal project and I don't have nearly enough material for a full album. It's merely for my own enjoyment. Please explain mastering to me if you feel I have the wrong concept of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Markdude Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Mastering is the process of making an entire record's worth of songs sound sonically consistent. It's about the frequency response, volume levels, stereo spectrum, etc. of all of the songs sounding more or less the same and for the record to have a cohesive flow. I'm assuming you want someone to put some compression on your mix and make some EQ tweaks, but that's really not mastering. Sorry, the misconception just irks me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soilent Posted June 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Mastering is the process of making an entire record's worth of songs sound sonically consistent. It's about the frequency response, volume levels, stereo spectrum, etc. of all of the songs sounding more or less the same and for the record to have a cohesive flow. I'm assuming you want someone to put some compression on your mix and make some EQ tweaks, but that's really not mastering. Sorry, the misconception just irks me. Well, I would like it to be sonically consistent with the other song I recorded, as well as be commercial volume, less harsh in the high end, and have a bit more punch. What ever people want to call that is what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrendanO Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 I will not post the "anyone here good at masturbating" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soilent Posted June 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 I will not post the "anyone here good at masturbating" thread. You should! It'll probably be quite popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffHenneman Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Mastering is the process of making an entire record's worth of songs sound sonically consistent. It's about the frequency response, volume levels, stereo spectrum, etc. of all of the songs sounding more or less the same and for the record to have a cohesive flow. I'm assuming you want someone to put some compression on your mix and make some EQ tweaks, but that's really not mastering. Sorry, the misconception just irks me. Very true, but it is a lot easier when everything is recorded with the same equipment and mixed by the same person. I have recently been learning more about mastering and it is tuff doing a full hip hop album. There are no consistent sounds used on this album I am working on right now. It is pushing my skills to the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rad Machine Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Mastering is the process of making an entire record's worth of songs sound sonically consistent. It's about the frequency response, volume levels, stereo spectrum, etc. of all of the songs sounding more or less the same and for the record to have a cohesive flow. I'm assuming you want someone to put some compression on your mix and make some EQ tweaks, but that's really not mastering. Sorry, the misconception just irks me. So when an artist releases a single its not been mastered? Or not classified as mastering? Hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny'sGotTheBlues Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Check with CharvelDan. Wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members exafro Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 So when an artist releases a single its not been mastered? Or not classified as mastering? Hmmmm Singles are usually off of a whole album though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rad Machine Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Singles are usually off of a whole album though. first single is usually released before the album is finished to build interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 first single is usually released before the album is finished to build interest. The album is usually complete before the first single release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Well, I would like it to be sonically consistent with the other song I recorded, as well as be commercial volume, less harsh in the high end, and have a bit more punch. What ever people want to call that is what I want. That's called mixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 first single is usually released before the album is finished to build interest. When this happens it's generally a one off and will be mastered along all at once with the full abum when they go in for mastering. Radio single =/= same exact thing as album version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shane159 Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 The album is usually complete before the first single release. This!! Don't blow your wad until you are happy with the whole picture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soilent Posted June 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 That's called mixing. So, mastering does not involve EQing the stereo track, maximizing and raising the overall volume? Btw, does anyone know how to master, or just know the definition of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Markdude Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 All I'm going to say is there's a reason sending your work to professional mastering engineers is a good idea. They're doing a lot more than throwing L2 on the master bus and applying a high shelf EQ to the mix, which is what every home recordist seems to think mastering is. Seriously, it's best to not concern yourself with mastering at the very least until you've got a good grip on mixing. Small steps, dudes. Small steps. And even then, there's really no reason. Most people are ruining their mixes with their attempts at it. It's a different ballgame than mixing, and even those who are proficient at one are usually not proficient at the other. Otherwise, there probably wouldn't be a need for both mastering engineers and mixing engineers. I do disagree with Mesa4x12er2 a little bit though; obtaining commercial volume levels is generally a part of the mastering process. And that's definitely one of the number one ways to {censored} up your mix if you don't know what you're doing. And I'm not claiming that I know how either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 I enjoy coming in and {censored}ting on self mastering threads but it looks like my work has been done for me this time! The purpose of mastering was originally to make mixes suitable in terms of frequency respense, dynamic range and stereo width to be pressed on a vinyl record. They had severe limitations in terms of how much bass could be on the record without the needle juming out the groove, how different the left and right sides could be without... throwing the needle out the groove, and how quiet it could be before vanishing in background crackle and hiss, or loud it could be before... throwing the needle out the groove. Now we don't have to worry about that but people still master. That's because mastering is still a great way to deal with the unavoidable limitations of recording and mixing in the same room, on a monitoring system that is revealing and also copes with wide dynamic volume range and powerful bass much better than most of speakers the people listening to your work will have. What do I mean by unavoidable limitations? Well if your room isn't acoustically treated then you might have a massive standing wave problem, so some bass notes seem louder than others. To compensate while recording you play those quieter bass notes harder. During mixing you notice that the bassline is uneven so you volume ride the part to make it sound right to you. Unfortunately, when you take it into another room that doesn't have the same standing wave problem you hear how uneven you've made the bass, trying to make it sound right in a bad sounding room. And that's just one example. Maybe you've got dull speakers so you always crank the high end of your mixes. Maybe your room has more bright reflections on the left so you pan things like shakers right to compensate. Maybe your bass drum's resonant frequency is cancelled out by the aforementioned standing waves, so you have a hell of a time making it audible as you're mixing it. This is where mastering comes in. A guy with a massive amount of experience who works in a well designed acoustically treated room listens to your mix with a fresh set of ears and no emotional investment in your work, and he hears all those problems that you didn't hear due to room acoustic problems, inexperience, bad monitoring etc. Then using his very well designed tools he surgically fixes those problems, and at the same time controls the dynamic range of your mixes so that they work in a range of real world listening environments and conform to current standards so your music doesn't sound weird as {censored} when it's played next to other tunes. The mastering engineer will use EQ, compression, limiting, stereo and mid-side processing, whatever it takes to make your mix sound its best. To give you an example, last year I took my mixes of my band's EP to a mastering house. The session took about 4 hours to do 4 songs, and it was a very eye opening experience. The engineer made some broad EQ changes to add some sparkle to the top end and open out the midrange a bit. At times he got surgical - reaching into the mix with mid side processing to take out boomy resonances on acoustic guitars that I couldn't even hear in my untreated mix room, and specific frequencies of our singer's voice that were harsh on the mic I'd picked to record him. Then he brought the volume up to a louder level than I'd ever manage, while still maintaining the mix's impact, attack, and clarity. There's no way I'd have been able to do any of that myself. I learned a {censored}load in those few hours hearing my mixes with total clarity and watching a pro fixing issues with them. I learned I put too much compression on individual tracks. I learned I was crap at mixing kick drums. I learned I put too much stuff in the midrange and it makes for congested mixes. I learned I need to LISTEN a lot more for problem frequencies. Hopefully that gives you some idea why "mastering" isn't really what you're doing if you take your own mix and change it. After all, you're the mixer. If you wanted it to sound different, why didn't you mix it to sound like that? In my mind, all you're doing by mastering your own mix is second guessing yourself while sitting in the same room where you made all your genuine mistakes in the first place. So if you want to make it louder, just throw the mix through a limiter. If you want to make it better, accept that it'll take someone with much more experience in a much better room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretless Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 UA has a few nice tips[video=youtube;F12UbRTnPw8] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Markdude Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 I enjoy coming in and {censored}ting on self mastering threads but it looks like my work has been done for me this time! The purpose of mastering was originally to make mixes suitable in terms of frequency respense, dynamic range and stereo width to be pressed on a vinyl record. They had severe limitations in terms of how much bass could be on the record without the needle juming out the groove, how different the left and right sides could be without... throwing the needle out the groove, and how quiet it could be before vanishing in background crackle and hiss, or loud it could be before... throwing the needle out the groove. Now we don't have to worry about that but people still master. That's because mastering is still a great way to deal with the unavoidable limitations of recording and mixing in the same room, on a monitoring system that is revealing and also copes with wide dynamic volume range and powerful bass much better than most of speakers the people listening to your work will have. What do I mean by unavoidable limitations? Well if your room isn't acoustically treated then you might have a massive standing wave problem, so some bass notes seem louder than others. To compensate while recording you play those quieter bass notes harder. During mixing you notice that the bassline is uneven so you volume ride the part to make it sound right to you. Unfortunately, when you take it into another room that doesn't have the same standing wave problem you hear how uneven you've made the bass, trying to make it sound right in a bad sounding room. And that's just one example. Maybe you've got dull speakers so you always crank the high end of your mixes. Maybe your room has more bright reflections on the left so you pan things like shakers right to compensate. Maybe your bass drum's resonant frequency is cancelled out by the aforementioned standing waves, so you have a hell of a time making it audible as you're mixing it. This is where mastering comes in. A guy with a massive amount of experience who works in a well designed acoustically treated room listens to your mix with a fresh set of ears and no emotional investment in your work, and he hears all those problems that you didn't hear due to room acoustic problems, inexperience, bad monitoring etc. Then using his very well designed tools he surgically fixes those problems, and at the same time controls the dynamic range of your mixes so that they work in a range of real world listening environments and conform to current standards so your music doesn't sound weird as {censored} when it's played next to other tunes. The mastering engineer will use EQ, compression, limiting, stereo and mid-side processing, whatever it takes to make your mix sound its best. To give you an example, last year I took my mixes of my band's EP to a mastering house. The session took about 4 hours to do 4 songs, and it was a very eye opening experience. The engineer made some broad EQ changes to add some sparkle to the top end and open out the midrange a bit. At times he got surgical - reaching into the mix with mid side processing to take out boomy resonances on acoustic guitars that I couldn't even hear in my untreated mix room, and specific frequencies of our singer's voice that were harsh. Then he brought the volume up to a louder level than I'd ever manage, while still maintaining the mix's impact, attack, and clarity. There's no way I'd have been able to do any of that myself. Hopefully that gives you some idea why "mastering" isn't really what you're doing if you take your own mix and change it. After all, you're the mixer. If you wanted it to sound different, why didn't you mix it to sound like that? In my mind, all you're doing by mastering your own mix is second guessing yourself while sitting in the same room that made you make all your genuine mistakes in the first place. So if you want to make it louder, just throw the mix through a limiter. If you want to make it better, accept that it'll take someone with much more experience in a much better room. I didn't really mean to {censored} on it. I just see a lot of threads like this and I have to speak up because usually people just end up making their stuff sound worse. I have a good buddy who is in the recording program at my university and I visit the studio with him a lot. He's obviously not a professional, but I watched him do some mastering assignment sessions and there's some pretty crazy stuff that can be done. Stuff that I had no idea was possible with just a stereo track. Watching him pick apart the mix and isolate certain parts by using mid/side processing and phasing tricks was a really cool thing to behold. There's a reason that it takes just as much time and dedication to become a great mastering engineer as it does to become a great mixing engineer. They're truly different crafts, and a jack of both trades will be a master (no pun intended) of neither. I just think it's silly to concern yourself with mastering, especially if you're new to mixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members linthat22 Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Mastering is the process of making an entire record's worth of songs sound sonically consistent. It's about the frequency response, volume levels, stereo spectrum, etc. of all of the songs sounding more or less the same and for the record to have a cohesive flow. I'm assuming you want someone to put some compression on your mix and make some EQ tweaks, but that's really not mastering. Sorry, the misconception just irks me. I never knew this! Thanks for the explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hahavishnu Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 bump for nightshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hecticone Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 The original mix sounds pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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