Members thefyn Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 I have an older ampeg fridge and it {censored}ing sucks. it takes up all the room in the van and weighs 100lbs. I'm looking for something reasonably small I can go from place to place without too much grief. I was blown away by how good the Fender Rumble 150 was. I had an 8x10 ampeg and a Hartke head but the Fender rumble could keep up. It's half the weight of yours, and at 150 watts, reaches its sweet spot before the sound guy pisses his pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reauchambeau Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 i dunno.. depending on volume levels.. i think a 15 can hold its own way better for REAL low end over a 410. it isn't pristine and clean at all-- but it'll push some bottom-- even if it's a little soft and blatty. 410s sound better to me WITH a big speaker in tandem so you get it all.. but a 215... now we're talking I've used single 15 cabs before loaded with EV's, JBL and Gauss, they are the most useless bass cabs I've ever used. a good 410 with destroy any 1x15 I personally have played through. I've owned 410+1x15 rigs before as well as 410+1x18 rigs, I ended up blowing speakers because it just couldn't compete with two 100w halfstacks. my search ended when I started using 810 cabs, nothing compare imo. if you don't play with guitarists who don't play too loud, a smaller rig will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reauchambeau Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 Speaker size has nothing to do with frequency response. Overall enclosure design does. But then again, I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say "real" low end, then describe the tone as soft and blatty. That sounds like weak low end to me, and a poor speaker being asked to do too much work. I know what you're trying to say but, I kind of disagree. a single 5 inch driver in an enclosure (no matter what the specs./dimensions) is not going to compete against, say an 18 or 26 inch driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 i dunno.. depending on volume levels.. i think a 15 can hold its own way better for REAL low end over a 410. it isn't pristine and clean at all-- but it'll push some bottom-- even if it's a little soft and blatty. 410s sound better to me WITH a big speaker in tandem so you get it all.. but a 215... now we're talking Well yeah it depends on levels and of course what kind of guitars/layers you're playing against. If you're playing w/ some dude on a Tele with a Tubescreamer into a 5W 112 combo or something, sure a 150W 115 will hold up. I used to have an SWR Basic Black. 150W 115 and probably the most silky sounding amp I've ever owned. Sounded great when practicing against acoustic guitars and electric drums doing country covers... Playing in my band against a 100W DR and Recto 412?? No fkn way br:o. 410's (or even higher powered 212's like mine) are plenty against a half stack as long as you're not diming it. Playing against a blaring full stack or 2 halves, the least I've gotten away with is a 215 @ 4 ohms. I prefer a 610 or 412, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 really? nothing? might wanna check yer physics on that one, 'cause last i checked, cone surface area has a little to do with frequency response when you're talking about limited excursion drivers. it's called 'generating air motion'. not a bad thing to have, when you're talking about moving 40 hz tones. and a 15 has a different transient response to a 10. oddly. with a well made cab, i prefer the sound of 15's. or am i incorrect about that too? gosh gee. hope you'll tell me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 Well yeah it depends on levels and of course what kind of guitars/layers you're playing against. If you're playing w/ some dude on a Tele with a Tubescreamer into a 5W 112 combo or something, sure a 150W 115 will hold up. I used to have an SWR Basic Black. 150W 115 and probably the most silky sounding amp I've ever owned. Sounded great when practicing against acoustic guitars and electric drums doing country covers... Playing in my band against a 100W DR and Recto 412?? No fkn way br:o. 410's (or even higher powered 212's like mine) are plenty against a half stack as long as you're not diming it. Playing against a blaring full stack or 2 halves, the least I've gotten away with is a 215 @ 4 ohms. I prefer a 610 or 412, however. oh nah-- i'm not saying you'll ALWAYS get the best sound out of a 15... sheeit. you can't compete with a pair of 100 w amps and a loud drummer with anything short of a shitton of power, or something supremely pingy and dialed in to cut. my bassist did it with a 215 mesa road ready cab and an rb400, and NEVER wasn't heard over a rock band. but tone definitely plays a part. for a cheapie though, i've been jaw-dropped by what you get from the new gk115.. wouldn't be my rock weapon of choice if given ALL other options though but she's good for cheap and light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reauchambeau Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 really? nothing? might wanna check yer physics on that one, 'cause last i checked, cone surface area has a little to do with frequency response when you're talking about limited excursion drivers. it's called 'generating air motion'. not a bad thing to have, when you're talking about moving 40 hz tones.and a 15 has a different transient response to a 10. oddly. with a well made cab, i prefer the sound of 15's. or am i incorrect about that too? gosh gee. hope you'll tell me! I agree with you on this, a 1x15 has 15 inches (diameter) of speaker surface area. a 410 cab has, 4x10=40 inches of surface area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reauchambeau Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 oh nah-- i'm not saying you'll ALWAYS get the best sound out of a 15... sheeit. you can't compete with a pair of 100 w amps and a loud drummer with anything short of a shitton of power, or something supremely pingy and dialed in to cut. my bassist did it with a 215 mesa road ready cab and an rb400, and NEVER wasn't heard over a rock band. but tone definitely plays a part. for a cheapie though, i've been jaw-dropped by what you get from the new gk115.. wouldn't be my rock weapon of choice if given ALL other options though but she's good for cheap and light. a 2x15 cab is a whole different story, they kick out some bottom end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theAntihero Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 really? nothing? might wanna check yer physics on that one, 'cause last i checked, cone surface area has a little to do with frequency response when you're talking about limited excursion drivers. it's called 'generating air motion'. not a bad thing to have, when you're talking about moving 40 hz tones.and a 15 has a different transient response to a 10. oddly. with a well made cab, i prefer the sound of 15's. or am i incorrect about that too? gosh gee. hope you'll tell me! I think it also has something to do with speakers divided by wattage myself. If you throw 500w at 1 speaker it usually has less headroom left that if you throw 500w at 4 speakers, usually more headroom=better bass response. Its hard to really compare cabs by their manufacters rating because an Ampeg 8x10 isnt rated to go super low yet sounds pretty big, carvin pulls their numbers out of their ass and has nothing to do with real world sound and stuff like the SWR Goliath jr isnt rated to go low as well yet also sounds huge. Its better to just go try everything in your price range and go from there but in general the smaller the cab the higher,the f3 value, the less bassy it sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 hey- nice math! and 10's still manage to sound nasal and pingy to me! oddly-- that corresponds EXACTLY to what i was saying about loose bass too. and how many speakers do YOU usually put a mic on, Ro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 hey- nice math! and 10's still manage to sound nasal and pingy to me! oddly-- that corresponds EXACTLY to what i was saying about loose bass too. and how many speakers do YOU usually put a mic on, Ro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 The best, smallest bass amp I've ever used was a 300W Markbass 1x12 combo amp. 500W with an extension cab. It was about 16" cubed and weighed 30lbs. Sounded amazing, and killed on the low B of a 5'er. Of course, the old saying that you can get any two of "good sound, small size or inexpensive" is true. Damn thing was over $900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miter Gauge Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 I use a Mackie powered speaker and a $150 eden preamp and it works great. If I needed to play a bigger venue (can't imagine I would) then I'd use the mackie as a floor wedge and run a line out to the board. Anyway, it has lots of power, good low end and it's very light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theAntihero Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 I agree with you on this, a 1x15 has 15 inches (diameter) of speaker surface area. a 410 cab has, 4x10=40 inches of surface area. I remember reading that if you take into account depth/throw on both a 15" and a 10" a 15" speaker has about the same surface area as 3 10" speakers. whether or not thats true i dont know. Honestly i think that since all speakers arent the same its hard to really get more than the vaguest of blanket statements about them. Usually bigger speakers can go lower and do so more efficiently but since they are physically bigger you usually get less of them in a manageable sized cab. Smaller speakers cant usually go as low nor are the as efficent as bigger speakers but you can get many more of them in a similiar sized cab which sometimes makes up for any of their downsides. There are a lot of variables though including porting, cab volume etc to consider though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 I use a Mackie powered speaker and a $150 eden preamp and it works great. If I needed to play a bigger venue (can't imagine I would) then I'd use the mackie as a floor wedge and run a line out to the board. Anyway, it has lots of power, good low end and it's very light. Active PA speakers surprisingly sound fkn badass for bass use.I used a powered Mackie too once (Think it was the horn+112+115) and ran a Demeter preamp in front of it. Ruled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 I think it also has something to do with speakers divided by wattage myself. If you throw 500w at 1 speaker it usually has less headroom left that if you throw 500w at 4 speakers, usually more headroom=better bass response. Its hard to really compare cabs by their manufacters rating because an Ampeg 8x10 isnt rated to go super low yet sounds pretty big, carvin pulls their numbers out of their ass and has nothing to do with real world sound and stuff like the SWR Goliath jr isnt rated to go low as well yet also sounds huge. Its better to just go try everything in your price range and go from there but in general the smaller the cab the higher,the f3 value, the less bassy it sounds. i agree with you-- hell-- guys push guitar speakers to the wall to get a looser sound-- and dumping 200 watts into a 400 watt speaker gets some good and crunchy. totally depends on the sound you want. i actually am kinda trolling as i had a discussion with a bassist friend of mine this week.. he always bought into the 410 thing too-- and it's a NICE sound.. it's just smooth. i kinda like bass sounds that aren't nearly as PERFECT.. so i baited him a while too i totally get it-- and know why people like 410s-- but they're just pretty polite to my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miter Gauge Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 I agree with you on this, a 1x15 has 15 inches (diameter) of speaker surface area. a 410 cab has, 4x10=40 inches of surface area. Area is pi R(2) so a 15" speaker has about 178" of surface area. A 10" speaker has 78.5 so 4 x 314 so thats a pretty big difference in area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miter Gauge Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 Active PA speakers surprisingly sound fkn badass for bass use.I used a powered Mackie too once (Think it was the horn+112+115) and ran a Demeter preamp in front of it. Ruled. I agree. In a pinch I can run my podHD through it and get a passable guitar sound too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reauchambeau Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 hey- nice math! and 10's still manage to sound nasal and pingy to me! oddly-- that corresponds EXACTLY to what i was saying about loose bass too. and how many speakers do YOU usually put a mic on, Ro? you know the PA that the mic is connected to? what kind of speakers does the PA have? if it's a real club, at least two 2x18's a side, so what's your point? your cab is a stage monitor for you and (sometimes) the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reauchambeau Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 Area is pi R(2) so a 15" speaker has about 178" of surface area. A 10" speaker has 78.5 so 4 x 314 so thats a pretty big difference in area. thanks, I didn't know the formula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blckbldng Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 After some research I bought this beast for my bass player who of course could not afford a bass amp. Best 300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 Chris from Muse uses the DBS stuff. Wish it was more available over here. edit: just saw that you mentioned already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reauchambeau Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 After some research I bought this beast for my bass player who of course could not afford a bass amp. Best 300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 Area is pi R(2) so a 15" speaker has about 178" of surface area. A 10" speaker has 78.5 so 4 x 314 so thats a pretty big difference in area. That's why when you pair a 4x10 with a 1x15 in a non-biamp rig the 10's usually overpower the 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted June 27, 2012 Members Share Posted June 27, 2012 you know the PA that the mic is connected to? what kind of speakers does the PA have? if it's a real club, at least two 2x18's a side, so what's your point? your cab is a stage monitor for you and (sometimes) the band. welp. it doesn't much matter, honestly. you're not convincing me that 10's sound BETTER. just that math says theres more surface area in a 410- with 4 inferior sounding speakers with overly fast transient response and compression, and that clubs have PAs with subs. and if my cab is a stage monitor for me and the band, i'd prefer it sounds better to me. with 15's in it. i'm not battling you-- all i'm saying, is that to me, 10's don't sound like a bass by themselves (except mebbe an ampeg coffin). 15's do. 18's also do. other than that-- rock what y' want. the op asked about good and portable bass amps that bring bass. i recommend a 15. ahem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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