Members bluesfella Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 We were in agreement until you mentioned Glocks which are easily some of the ugliest, plainest looking guns ever. I dunno, I guess I like Glocks because they're so instantly recognizable. You can tell right away it's a Glock when you see a square gun like that. They have a nice no-nonsense look to them, I think.But yeah, the 1911 is definitely cooler looking. I like the ones with the really nice wooden finishes on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesfella Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 A friend of mine had a modified 1911 that had a .22 barrel. Although I'm sure the gun purists here would think it's blasphemy, I really liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AtGZBWRmLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Yeah but you don't want or need to disassemble a properly fit 1911 all that much. Doing so is like firing it hundreds of times.As long as you keep the barrel/chamber clean.I make it a point to only have bushingless 1911s. Yeah they're great for WWII combat, but for modern match or target, bushings are just more play in the gun. IDPA night is a 200-250 round affair. Not only that but since you have a full length frame/slide rail interface with a 1911 you gotta clean them much more than you do a Glock or they'll gum up. Worst case I like to be able to break the entire gun down with no tools. The 1911 was designed to be able to be disassembled completely with no tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeppelin Rules Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Here's a few more I've built over the years... Those are awesome! When you say that you made them, are we talking block of metal-->completed gun, or are you just making certain parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Those are awesome! When you say that you made them, are we talking block of metal-->completed gun, or are you just making certain parts? I started with a donor gun. {censored}canned everything but the frame, slide, and barrel, and started over. Making a 1911 run right is all about the fit of the various small parts. I also like all the sharp corners rounded on the outside of the gun. Plus the high end aftermarket parts I used were way better than the stock {censored}. The pistol I just got (Springfield TRP) is sort of a semi-custom deal. It's already a pretty nice gun ($1500 or so new) so I'm only going to change a few things on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Yeah but you don't want or need to disassemble a properly fit 1911 all that much. Doing so is like firing it hundreds of times. This statement makes absolutely zero sense to me. I'm not sure how you disassemble yours but firing 1 shot causes a whole lot more heat and friction than me just sliding off the slide. That and I've found 1911s to be much more finicky than any other pistols I have owned/used a lot. They definitely degrade in performance as they get dirty much more than something like a Glock or Sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 This statement makes absolutely zero sense to me. I'm not sure how you disassemble yours but firing 1 shot causes a whole lot more heat and friction than me just sliding off the slide. That and I've found 1911s to be much more finicky than any other pistols I have owned/used a lot. They definitely degrade in performance as they get dirty much more than something like a Glock or Sig. There are a couple of trouble spots in a 1911 but about 90% of it's the extractor. 1911's are a controlled feed setup which means the extractor is probably the most important part in the whole pistol. A properly fitted out pistol will work just fine even when all gunked up. This includes truly harsh environments like the sandbox which tend to be really hard on pistols. The Marine Corps was still issuing 1911's to some units when I got out so they evidently work just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 There are a couple of trouble spots in a 1911 but about 90% of it's the extractor. 1911's are a controlled feed setup which means the extractor is probably the most important part in the whole pistol. A properly fitted out pistol will work just fine even when all gunked up. This includes truly harsh environments like the sandbox which tend to be really hard on pistols. The Marine Corps was still issuing 1911's to some units when I got out so they evidently work just fine. Good to know. Most of the issues I've encountered with them aren't really extractor issues though. It almost seems like as they gunk up you can notice a difference in speed of the slide even. Like the action gets gritty and sluggish. I'm sure a tip top 1911 is awesome but I doubt you'll find one of those off the shelf at your local shop and apparently I've never had the pleasure of firing one. I would trust a Glock, Sig, or Beretta in a harsh environment before trust a 1911. Just my opinion is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Good to know. Most of the issues I've encountered with them aren't really extractor issues though. It almost seems like as they gunk up you can notice a difference in speed of the slide even. Like the action gets gritty and sluggish. I'm sure a tip top 1911 is awesome but I doubt you'll find one of those off the shelf at your local shop and apparently I've never had the pleasure of firing one. I would trust a Glock, Sig, or Beretta in a harsh environment before trust a 1911. Just my opinion is all. Food for thought... When the slide comes back forward it has to pick up another round. Since it's a controlled feed design the round slides up the breechface under the extractor. That actually takes a fair bit of tension so if your extractor is overtensioned it'll contribute to sluggish feeding. Similarly, lots of guns come with a 16lb recoil spring which is a tad bit undersprung. a 17lb is really ideal and will help alot. Additionally, lots of pistols come with a really heavy mainspring (the one that pushes the hammer) to make them "Drop safe" but the problem there is that they become harder to push the slide back. So it's all a balance. You get all your spring rates right and your extractor set and then you have a huge margin of error where your gun can get really dirty before you'll ever notice it. My IDPA rig was a 1911 I built on a Kimber series I base gun and I'd shoot 800 rounds a month through it and only clean it every thousand or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members uppercasenoises Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 I'm more of a 9mm guy, mainly because it has been shown that when the average person is in danger (elevated adrenaline levels), they tend to pull the trigger a lot more. I'm partial to the CZ 75 SP-01. 18+1 capacity, with a total damage output (kinetic energy) greater than the standard 7+1 round 1911 (yeah, I know you can get larger mags or double stacked, but few people like those to begin with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Food for thought... When the slide comes back forward it has to pick up another round. Since it's a controlled feed design the round slides up the breechface under the extractor. That actually takes a fair bit of tension so if your extractor is overtensioned it'll contribute to sluggish feeding. Similarly, lots of guns come with a 16lb recoil spring which is a tad bit undersprung. a 17lb is really ideal and will help alot. Additionally, lots of pistols come with a really heavy mainspring (the one that pushes the hammer) to make them "Drop safe" but the problem there is that they become harder to push the slide back. So it's all a balance. You get all your spring rates right and your extractor set and then you have a huge margin of error where your gun can get really dirty before you'll ever notice it. My IDPA rig was a 1911 I built on a Kimber series I base gun and I'd shoot 800 rounds a month through it and only clean it every thousand or so. Well sounds like if you get it all adjusted properly it can work out as good as the others. I will say though I find comfort in the fact that I don't have to worry about all of that in my other guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Well sounds like if you get it all adjusted properly it can work out as good as the others. I will say though I find comfort in the fact that I don't have to worry about all of that in my other guns. No question a Glock will usually run well right out of the box. Most "Pro's" still shoot 1911's and most of the schools still endorse them. The reason is that with a bit of training most people will shoot them much better than they will just about anything else. A well built one will be dead nuts reliable for tens of thousands of rounds with a bit of upkeep and periodic tuning. They're definitely not the same paradigm as a Glock which is one of the finest combat handguns ever designed. I can go either way. I own both, have shot both extensively and wouldn't feel bad trusting my life to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 No question a Glock will usually run well right out of the box. Most "Pro's" still shoot 1911's and most of the schools still endorse them. The reason is that with a bit of training most people will shoot them much better than they will just about anything else. A well built one will be dead nuts reliable for tens of thousands of rounds with a bit of upkeep and periodic tuning. They're definitely not the same paradigm as a Glock which is one of the finest combat handguns ever designed. I can go either way. I own both, have shot both extensively and wouldn't feel bad trusting my life to either. Yeah for sure. I wouldn't mind trusting my life to mine... As long as it was clean. If not, well then I hope I can nail them in the face when I throw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 No question a Glock will usually run well right out of the box. Most "Pro's" still shoot 1911's and most of the schools still endorse them. The reason is that with a bit of training most people will shoot them much better than they will just about anything else. A well built one will be dead nuts reliable for tens of thousands of rounds with a bit of upkeep and periodic tuning. They're definitely not the same paradigm as a Glock which is one of the finest combat handguns ever designed. I can go either way. I own both, have shot both extensively and wouldn't feel bad trusting my life to either. Yeah for sure. I wouldn't mind trusting my life to mine... As long as it was clean. If not, well then I hope I can nail them in the face when I throw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 No question a Glock will usually run well right out of the box. Most "Pro's" still shoot 1911's and most of the schools still endorse them. The reason is that with a bit of training most people will shoot them much better than they will just about anything else. A well built one will be dead nuts reliable for tens of thousands of rounds with a bit of upkeep and periodic tuning. They're definitely not the same paradigm as a Glock which is one of the finest combat handguns ever designed. I can go either way. I own both, have shot both extensively and wouldn't feel bad trusting my life to either. Pros shoot 1911s because they are more accurate, and have better triggers, they can be accurized for competition......meaning you can punch better holes and knock down steel better...there are no PRO gunfighters out there...only competition shooters.... That said Glocks are junk and all you have to do is own one and actually put thousands of rounds through one to know this...youtube vids show plastic guide rods flying out after 500 rds when they melt, LA and Seattle PD dumped the G21 when they were blowing up in peoples hands...they don't fully capture the rd, the timing was off...they wouldn't feed. You can't hardly reload for them unless you literally know how to design a round to work...I've done this on my GEN 2 G21, that while educational, in end is like trying to make a Squire into a Suhr... Popularity... Anyone can shoot a Glock, because like a squirt gun, all a kid has to do is pull the trigger...so it's easy to train on, they are sold dirt cheap to the police departments, hence the popularity......despite the fact that it failed in the military trials in the reliability and accuracy department..despite where it's built in Austria, the police carry Sigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Um, no. First off a FLGR provides consistent spring tension by capturing the spring, rather then flopping willy nilly in the slide housing, dragging on wherever.....if you reload target rounds, and take the power charges down to the extreme low level along with reducing spring weight, in furtherance of reducing recoil to aid accuracy, you will see there is a point where if you try it with a FLGR it will cycle, but hit and miss with the standard guide rod. That's as conclusive as it gets...the gun shoots with the FLGR and doesn't with a standard one. Now add in dirt into the cavity...which one will operate smoother?Does this matter with heavier loads? Some would argue not, but if you have taken the time to explore this, it's clear to me I want a captured recoil spring, if just for a smoother running pistol and hence why everyone has them in their guns despite hold outs with out a clue because 'that's the way John Browning designed it'The only justifiable reason for a standard rod is to slam the nose into a bench to unstick a stuck round. that you couldn't rack out by hand.....which is stupid, but yes, necessary if you are reloading seriously lousy range brass and have such epic jams...(been there) but discount the fact that pretty much everyone uses full length guitar rods...Sig, XDs, Glocks, you name it....because they work better...and that said, there are some guns that just don't have those type of feed problems...some do..I avoid the ones that do...if you can't rack it out by hand, something is really messed up in there...That said, your logic is further flawed in that you need a tool for FLGR, hence to aid field strip, so you replace with a standard one...fail.......The barrel bushing on a Springfield is so tight anyway, assuming you got a good one, that you need a bushing wrench anyway to get the thing apart, rendering your whole silly expert opinion on 1911 maintenance completely moot. Not to mention that a FLGR doesn't need a tool to be removed if you have the right one, instead of some special screw out version....that said...if you got a loose barrel bushing on a TRP then you won't get the lock up that a Springfield should have for better accuracy...which means that in the end, if you wanted a stupid loose rattle can 1911 like the Marine use, then you should have simply bought the Springfield total POS GI model for $700 less, taken a hammer to it to loosen things up. You might not be able to hit a barn door with it, but hey, you can take it apart as easy as any Glock, but with the added benefit of getting killed because you only brought 7 rounds to the fight when the other guy brought 17. Great logic. That said, getting a 7 rd pistol in a hicap world is tactically stupid, and only holds up if you can shoot like Todd Jarret throwing half a million rounds down range and he shoots a Para hicap like me......but considering it's size you won't carry it..so it's a night stand gun...so let's hope the $1200 7+1 gun that you bought to defend the home isn't trumped by a $300 17+1 gun the homies brought to the game that night. My guess is that you shoot as much as the average gang banger, so capacity will trump quality. Your dead. Wife is raped; Your stuff is stolen. Pros shoot 1911s because they are more accurate, and have better triggers, they can be accurized for competition......meaning you can punch better holes and knock down steel better...there are no PRO gunfighters out there...only competition shooters....That said Glocks are junk and all you have to do is own one and actually put thousands of rounds through one to know this...youtube vids show plastic guide rods flying out after 500 rds when they melt, LA and Seattle PD dumped the G21 when they were blowing up in peoples hands...they don't fully capture the rd, the timing was off...they wouldn't feed. You can't hardly reload for them unless you literally know how to design a round to work...I've done this on my GEN 2 G21, that while educational, in end is like trying to make a Squire into a Suhr...Popularity...Anyone can shoot a Glock, because like a squirt gun, all a kid has to do is pull the trigger...so it's easy to train on, they are sold dirt cheap to the police departments, hence the popularity......despite the fact that it failed in the military trials in the reliability and accuracy department..despite where it's built in Austria, the police carry Sigs. You should probably do a bit more research into combat shooting. I'm not talking "game" style combat shooting with rounds that barely make major power factor either, but actual defensive shooting with real defensive ammo. Guys like Larry Vickers, Hilton Yam, etc. who have forgotten more about the workings of the 1911 than most "gunsmiths" know, and who carry the things in the real world as part of their jobs disagree with you pretty much point by point. Just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted September 29, 2012 Members Share Posted September 29, 2012 Wow! I checked out a 300 blackout upper on Tuesday. 8". I am thinking about buying it this weekend. (I have to look into a trust first). I have a security clearance pending though and am a bit nervous about concurrent FBI investigations, not that I have anything to hide, it just seems bad to get my name out there too much at once. I can't afford a can right now, but should be good in a few months. I don't want to "buy" anything until I actually have the cash and am already buying a full length tube for my benelli m4 a couple of Gisselle SSA's and an aimpoint comp m4s with a LaRue mount and a couple of surefire lights. Also I may have to register a lower for it at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 29, 2012 Wow! I checked out a 300 blackout upper on Tuesday. 8". I am thinking about buying it this weekend. (I have to look into a trust first). I have a security clearance pending though and am a bit nervous about concurrent FBI investigations, not that I have anything to hide, it just seems bad to get my name out there too much at once. I can't afford a can right now, but should be good in a few months. I don't want to "buy" anything until I actually have the cash and am already buying a full length tube for my benelli m4 a couple of Gisselle SSA's and an aimpoint comp m4s with a LaRue mount and a couple of surefire lights. Also I may have to register a lower for it at the same time. I just picked up a full length extension for my Benelli M2. Just do the SBR. They won't get to the background for 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~Abstract~ Posted September 29, 2012 Members Share Posted September 29, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 29, 2012 Nice. I used to have that exact same pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~Abstract~ Posted September 29, 2012 Members Share Posted September 29, 2012 Nice. I used to have that exact same pistol. LOUD as {censored} with the "compensated" barrel, huh? I had in ears and all I heard after the first shot was hiss... There is NO WAY I'd EVER use this as a carry weapon. I'd shoot it once and never hear again. But it IS sweet and shoots well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted September 29, 2012 Members Share Posted September 29, 2012 LOUD as {censored} with the "compensated" barrel, huh? I had in ears and all I heard after the first shot was hiss... There is NO WAY I'd EVER use this as a carry weapon. I'd shoot it once and never hear again. But it IS sweet and shoots well. Think about firing from inside a car. Exploded ears. Not that you do drive-bys or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~Abstract~ Posted September 29, 2012 Members Share Posted September 29, 2012 Think about firing from inside a car. Exploded ears. Not that you do drive-bys or anything... Not with this mother{censored}er...and not with a 7 round mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 29, 2012 I ended up trading it for a really nice German made Sig 225. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.