Members Rear Naked Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by AVisme I also think subsidizing doctor and nurse education, as a way to address the shortage, as well as ballooning health care costs, would be preferable to a lot of things government wastes our tax dollars on. Education should be free to students who show an aptitude for medicine, and are willing to go into general practice, psychiatry, and other fields that have a real need for doctors. I'd like to address your idea of subsidizing physician education. I cannot speak for nursing as much, but the physician side I can. Medical schools are full. Residency spots are full. There is no shortage of potential physicians. Physician education needs no subsidy because the system we have us running at full capacity. The problem is restriction of supply.Also, there are programs of tuition reimbursement for primary care physicians who commit to working in areas in need of them.I have my own ideas about healthcare reform, but subsidizing physician education is not needed. It wouldn't change anything because there would be no new doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members glenecho Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 What is the ratio between gun related murders and how many times someone has prevented one by carrying their own firearm? Just gonna go nuts and guess it's something like 10,000:1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVisme Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by Rear Naked The problem is restriction of supply. Could you elaborate on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miter Gauge Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by glenecho What is the ratio between gun related murders and how many times someone has prevented one by carrying their own firearm? Just gonna go nuts and guess it's something like 10,000:1. It's probably more like 100,000:1. Still, if people don't think guns can stop crimes I wonder why they don't fault the police for carrying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miter Gauge Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by AVisme Could you elaborate on this? I think he means that insurance companies get in the way and keep the drs from healing people but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neilrocks25 Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Because the government is a cesspool is waste and corruption that is already broke. They can't even make the sane decision to cut spending, so dumping more spending on top of that would just speed the economic collapse. The functioning system I'm describing would require a revolution in budgeting priorities, which would have a non-interventionist foreign policy at the top of the list. Neither Democrats nor Republicans want to limit our foreign adventures to our real national security interests. President Obama is already on the verge of getting us into a war in Syria. But that is another subject. But you health care system is currupt already. I looked in to moving there and the health care system you have is such a huge rip off. And as for a war on Syria, I think you will find that will not be the case except for some small operations, but that is normal with any goverment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 I think he means that insurance companies get in the way and keep the drs from healing people but I could be wrong. No not at all. US requires licensure to be a physician. To be licensed, you must go through residency. Residencies are paid for mostly by government, and the number of spots hasn't changed in 15 years. I think PPACA is going to increase them but not nearly enough. Medical schools might (I dont know) be able to expand capacity if they want, but where will these new doctors be trained? No residency spots for them, so it doesn't matter. What about foreign trained physicians who want to practice here? They are required to go through US residencies to be licensed here in America. Same problem. Physician salaries are a big part of high healthcare costs here, and these high salaries are directly related to the self imposed shortage we have. I know plenty of people who would be good doctors and save a lot of lives if they could get into medical school, but they aren't smart enough to make it in. The competition is unnecessarily tough because there needs to be more spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 But you health care system is currupt already. I looked in to moving there and the health care system you have is such a huge rip off. And as for a war on Syria, I think you will find that will not be the case except for some small operations, but that is normal with any goverment. The current system is {censored}ed, but one can advocate great changes in the system without being in favor of changing it to a Canadian type system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rushtallica Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 huh? try living in ancient greece I already tried that and got bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miter Gauge Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 No not at all. US requires licensure to be a physician. To be licensed, you must go through residency. Residencies are paid for mostly by government, and the number of spots hasn't changed in 15 years. I think PPACA is going to increase them but not nearly enough. Medical schools might (I dont know) be able to expand capacity if they want, but where will these new doctors be trained? No residency spots for them, so it doesn't matter. What about foreign trained physicians who want to practice here? They are required to go through US residencies to be licensed here in America. Same problem. Physician salaries are a big part of high healthcare costs here, and these high salaries are directly related to the self imposed shortage we have. I know plenty of people who would be good doctors and save a lot of lives if they could get into medical school, but they aren't smart enough to make it in. The competition is unnecessarily tough because there needs to be more spots. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVisme Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 US requires licensure to be a physician. To be licensed, you must go through residency. Residencies are paid for mostly by government, and the number of spots hasn't changed in 15 years. I think PPACA is going to increase them but not nearly enough. Medical schools might (I dont know) be able to expand capacity if they want, but where will these new doctors be trained? No residency spots for them, so it doesn't matter. What about foreign trained physicians who want to practice here? They are required to go through US residencies to be licensed here in America. Same problem. Physician salaries are a big part of high healthcare costs here, and these high salaries are directly related to the self imposed shortage we have. I know plenty of people who would be good doctors and save a lot of lives if they could get into medical school, but they aren't smart enough to make it in. The competition is unnecessarily tough because there needs to be more spots.Okay...so we largely agree. Whether the shortage is self-imposed or not, there is a shortage. The government needs to make changes to fix the situation. Whether it's creating more spots in residency training, or loosening entry standards to medical school, subsidizing that education (repaying sky-high student debt must be some factor in a doctor's chosen field -- GPs don't make as much as specialists), or building more schools. The problem is only going to get worse as time goes by. We also agree that the shortage is contributing to healthcare costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Okay...so we largely agree. Whether the shortage is self-imposed or not, there is a shortage. The government needs to make changes to fix the situation. Whether it's creating more spots in residency training, or loosening entry standards to medical school, subsidizing that education (repaying sky-high student debt must be some factor in a doctor's chosen field -- GPs don't make as much as specialists), or building more schools. The problem is only going to get worse as time goes by. We also agree that the shortage is contributing to healthcare costs. yes absolutely. I advocate for more residency spots, more schools, and relaxed entry requirements to medical schools. I just got the impression that you thought that tuition subsidies were needed across the board to get more students to become physicians. Tuition help is useful for shifting more students into primary care in certain areas, but this doesnt really help the amount of doctors there are. However, that is just a bandaid over the problem caused by the imbalance of PC vs Specialty pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVisme Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 I just got the impression that you thought that tuition subsidies were needed across the board to get more students to become physicians. It was one idea I heard years ago on CNN, from a panel of doctors discussing health care reform. But, I'm in favor of whatever effectively helps fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Supply of hospitals is also restricted by the requirement of a Certificate of Need before they can be built. {censored}ing bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVisme Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 I don't understand why, rather than passing a huge law like Obamacare, they don't cut ridiculous regulations like that. And waste like this: http://am.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/01/health-care-prescription-for-waste-1000-toothbrush/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeloAngelo Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 what the {censored} is this {censored}? this is a thread about guns. we need to ban guns so criminals can't get a hold of them and use them like the criminal who killed himself in the mall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVisme Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 this is a thread about guns. we need to ban guns so criminals can't get a hold of them and use them like the criminal who killed himself in the mall.These criminals are usually mentally ill people, who if they had gotten the care they needed, wouldn't have gone on a shooting spree. James Holmes and Jared Loughner were both insane and needed to be in a mental health facility. Rather than try banning things, in violation of our civil rights, we should try to get to the root of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeloAngelo Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 shut the {censored} up and recognize the sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVisme Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 :arg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Nelo is mentally ill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeloAngelo Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Nelo is mentally ill my mother had me tested. the doctor ran away and we never heard the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sandy Cheeks Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 These criminals are usually mentally ill people, who if they had gotten the care they needed, wouldn't have gone on a shooting spree. James Holmes and Jared Loughner were both insane and needed to be in a mental health facility. Rather than try banning things, in violation of our civil rights, we should try to get to the root of the problem. Maybe you need to hit the reset button. Why should civil rights include owning firearms? In Canada, gun ownership is not a right, but a restricted privilege. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeloAngelo Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Maybe you need to hit the reset button. Why should civil rights include owning firearms? In Canada, gun ownership is not a right, but a restricted privilege. Works for me. take off, hoser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sandy Cheeks Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 take off, hoser. What an unintelligent reply, but what else could one expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miter Gauge Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Maybe you need to hit the reset button. Why should civil rights include owning firearms? In Canada, gun ownership is not a right, but a restricted privilege. Works for me. Canada isn't the US, people are actually nice in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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