Members musicdog400 Posted October 5, 2009 Members Share Posted October 5, 2009 I have been trying to fine tune and dial in a ten string guitar I built. The string near the top side of the neck is fretting out in two spots, even after a fret level. I could keep going down with the fret level but if I go too low, I will have to totally refret My first choice would be to build up the fret on this one string if possible. Plan B is to remove the two frets and replace them will some taller fret wire I have on order. I guess plan C is a total refret. Anyone ever heard of building a fret up ? (maybe with super glue or solder or...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted October 5, 2009 Members Share Posted October 5, 2009 If the frets are too low replace them with some fresh wire and level them down to the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted October 5, 2009 Members Share Posted October 5, 2009 Rock the frets and be sure they are low. Its not the low frets its the high ones that are the issue in most cases. Bad strings and pups too close can fake you out so cover those bases too. Flat frets can do it too so recrowning is something to consider if needed. You really cant build frets up other than a temporary fix which usually sucks. If you put new ones on and dont take them down they become obstructions to the frets below it obviously as mr brown stated. Neck relief and string height are the other two factors. I would suppose neck twist could be another issue on an instrument like that too. If I were to build something like that having two truss rods or carbon fiber inserts would be a must because of the string additional string pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members musicdog400 Posted October 5, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2009 I am sure they are low. I did put two truss rods in this neck, and adjusted one of them but it didn't help these frets which are very close to the pickup. Tapper guitars really need a low action and very level frets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted October 6, 2009 Members Share Posted October 6, 2009 I have a minature touchup stone I use with the instrument strung up. You basically loosen a string or two and work the frets with the neck under tension for specific spots. Since the frets are low near the pups, there woyldnt be much use for that though. I get the low string thing for tapping and I'm familure with the technique. Still comes down to deciding weather you want to refret or not though. I'm one to use super jumbo frets for a few reasons. I like the fluted neck feel for bending strings. And since I do bend the hell out of my strings I get fret wear so my guitars require regular maintainence. The bigger frets have a much longer lifetime for me. i would guess with the tapping the frets and strings dent giving the issues you describe. My advice is to make all the frets the same lowness as your lowest fret, Use a fret file and ride the fretboard to gauge the height. Tedious job but its the only sure way to make things right. Since its the top frets that are the issue, You may be able to gradually allow the lower frets to remain higher but this can cause intonation issues. Ine trick I use is to get some super/super fine sandpaper. Put it in the heel of my palm and run it up and down the fretboard, bumping over the frets with my palm heel acting as a buffer. It will level the frets and put a mild crown on them at the same time. Its done by feel in getting the heights correct and can do wonders if you get the knack for it. I developed the method long before I got my hands on real luthier tools. It took me several years working with those tools before I could actually do a better job than I could with the palm treatment. The thing thats good with the palm treatment is you are using the fretboard as a guide to getting the fret heights correct. If the fretboars is level, then the frets follow. In a case where the instrument is going to need new frets soon anyway, its worth a try. My buddy brought me an old 70s les paul recently with grooves in the lower frets that were probably .011 or more deep. I gave it the palm treatment followed by steel wool polishing and it restored the thing as though it had been refretted. If I had used fret files I would have had to gauge every fret to get it right and probably would have required refretting. This way I've given him several years at least in using the original frets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members musicdog400 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2009 Interesting, I might try that palm treatment approach. To be honest, I have never crowned the frets on any of my DIY instruments. So far it hasn't caused any real problem. When making this neck, I skipped one of my normal steps, which is to spray paint the fretboard white or black, then sand with a level until all the paint is gone. Doing that along with a total refret might be the best. Or I might just build a new one. I am thinking about something smaller, lighter, and maybe going down to 8 strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted October 6, 2009 Members Share Posted October 6, 2009 I have never crowned the frets on any of my DIY instruments. So far it hasn't caused any real problem. Sounds like the cause of your problem then. Flat frets buzz, crowned frets dont buzz like flat ones do (if the fret heights are all even and you have proper height and releif). The pics should help explaining why. Pic 456 shows a crowned fret. It will make contact with strings at a single point anywheres on the neck because the top is circular. The rest of the string clears because the arch of the fret quicklu clears the string vibration. Pic 457 shows a flat fret. The string makes contact with the edge of the flat fret and there will be an air gap that allows the string to buzz like a sitar bridge. The higher up the frets the more accute the angle between the fret and the bridge height. On a normal guitar withe the height set properly, you may not get buzzing in the upper frets because the angle becomes great enough so the flat fret edge doesnt buzz as much as the low frets do. In your case, if you have low string height, it can buzz just about anywhere. The other type fret shaping which is the best in the world is done by a guy I know named PETE PETELLIO who creates a pyramid shaped fret that contacts the string in one spot only and maintains accurate intonation this way.http://www.petilloguitars.com/frets.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members musicdog400 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2009 Thanks, good info. I will crown the frets now. The original problem is not a buzzing, it is so bad that the note doesn't even play. The up side is that I only need to move my finger up one fret to get a whole step increase in pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted October 6, 2009 Members Share Posted October 6, 2009 Thanks, good info. I will crown the frets now. The original problem is not a buzzing, it is so bad that the note doesn't even play. The up side is that I only need to move my finger up one fret to get a whole step increase in pitch. Are you sure it's not a high fret? Check it out with an accurate straightedge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members musicdog400 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2009 Are you sure it's not a high fret? Yea I did a good bit of sanding with the level and now the frets are pretty good except for the two mentioned. Stewmac has some tall fret wire on the way. If that doesn't work, I will totally defret, re-level, and re-fret the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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